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AI potentially replacing mass jobs...
30-Apr-24 1:30am
#1
ft763
Global Trader - willing to trade internationally Has Written 1 Review Australia

I'm not sure if I can provide a link, but it seems that Japan has robotic doctors for a while already and these are supplanting humans. Well here's more evidence that other countries are doing the same...

https://www.news.com...
Chinese company exploring how a cyborg can complete house jobs

https://www.news.com...
America has some Wendy's stores being staffed by advanced technology
30-Apr-24 2:15am
#2
monkbonk
Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally

There’s the DaVinci robot that assists or performs heart surgeries. I remember a class action lawsuit regarding it, tho.
30-Apr-24 2:27am
#3
benstylus
GameTZ Gold Subscriber GameTZ Full Moderator 550 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Gold Global Trader (9) Has Written 26 Reviews

ft763 wrote:
America has some Wendy's stores being staffed by advanced technology
You can replace the loudspeaker interaction at the DriveThru but you still need people to cook, take your money, and hand you the food. I dislike drivethrus in general so that doesn't affect me much anyway.

Wendy's was also in the news recently for planning to introduce "dynamic pricing," meaning items could cost you different amounts depending on the time of day. They were VERY quick to backpedal and claim you wouldn't be paying more during peak hours but might pay less during slow hours (of course if they raise prices across the board and charge the old price during off peak hours that's essentially the same thing as surge pricing).


30-Apr-24 5:13am
#4
ft763
Global Trader - willing to trade internationally Has Written 1 Review Australia

Can you please explain what the hell is surge pricing?? Never come across that.

As to the part where people are still needed for jobs, the article was saying tha automated equipment can somehow do it faster or more accurately. But I guess take it with a grain of salt...
30-Apr-24 6:41am
#5
benstylus
GameTZ Gold Subscriber GameTZ Full Moderator 550 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Gold Global Trader (9) Has Written 26 Reviews

ft763 wrote:
Can you please explain what the hell is surge pricing?? Never come across that.
Short version: Prices go higher when it's busy.

You can see examples of this in many industries already. Look at hotels. Get a room any night Monday through Thursday, and the room will likely be significantly cheaper than on Friday or Saturday.

Got a big event coming to your city, like the recent solar eclipse? Hotels go crazy with their prices.

As to the part where people are still needed for jobs, the article was saying tha automated equipment can somehow do it faster or more accurately. But I guess take it with a grain of salt...
It would take a huge amount of money to fully automate a fast food restaurant. Full automation works best for industries that create bulk quantities of identical items so they can pump them out as fast as possible and the profit comes from scale.

The output of a fast food restaurant is typically limited by the region it serves. Automating a Wendy's would not bring hundreds of times more customers to that location.

30-Apr-24 8:00am
#6
Tony
Triple Gold Good Trader

From their very beginning, fast food restaurants have been transferring the restaurant duties to the customer. Order at the counter, take your food to the table, fill your own drinks, and bus your own table instead of paying restaurant employees do it. Most of you probably don't recall the commercial where a fast casual restaurant called the fast food places "work-a-raunts" because of all the work they expected of the customer. Every fast food restaurant is trying to get every customer to order on the app or in-store ordering kiosks and pay by credit card so they don't have to pay someone to take your order and money. About the only thing left is to get you to cook your own food.

Wendy's caught flack for "surge pricing" because they presented it poorly. Almost every fast casual restaurant has "happy hour" periods with lower prices for the exact same food. Even Arby's has Happy Hour from 2 to 5 PM when small drinks and small fries are just $1.
30-Apr-24 8:21am
#7
BlueJava
Silver Good Trader

They have been using technology to cook food for years and bypass actually paying qualified individuals... One example is automatic fry baskets which one you fill them you press a button and it drops/raises them when the timer expires.. Yes you humans to load the baskets but you quickly go from a full kitchen of minimum wage workers to 2... Food quality is being replaced with comping any complaints which leads to the same customers always having problems to get free food, Why would you keep going to the place that messes up your food?

Invest in your "purge" security system because in the coming years all this unemployment will lead to millions of desperate people.. Seeing how desperate it's getting now I expect that trend to get much worse.
30-Apr-24 3:03pm
#8
Shane12m
Triple Gold Good Trader

Jobs will always get automated or easier to do which causes less jobs in those areas. This isn’t new and shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone.
1-May-24 2:35am
#9
ft763
Global Trader - willing to trade internationally Has Written 1 Review Australia

benstylus wrote:
ft763 wrote:> Can you please explain what the hell is surge pricing?? Never come across that. Short version: Prices go higher when it's busy. You can see examples of this in many industries already. Look at hotels. Get a room any night Monday through Thursday, and the room will likely be significantly cheaper than on Friday or Saturday. Got a big event coming to your city, like the recent solar eclipse? Hotels go crazy with their prices.> As to the part where people are still needed for jobs, the article was saying tha> automated equipment can somehow do it faster or more accurately. But I guess take> it with a grain of salt... It would take a huge amount of money to fully automate a fast food restaurant. Full automation works best for industries that create bulk quantities of identical items so they can pump them out as fast as possible and the profit comes from scale. The output of a fast food restaurant is typically limited by the region it serves. Automating a Wendy's would not bring hundreds of times more customers to that location.
Thanks for explaining this, my friend ^^
1-May-24 7:08am
#10
Tony
Triple Gold Good Trader

Automating a job doesn't necessarily have to make it faster or more accurate, it just has to be more cost effective than the human it replaces.

The company I worked for needed simple sewing of two pieces of material together. A company in the same industrial park had the equipment and people to do the job, but the cost was high and the quality wasn't that great. As the demand increased, it was more cost effective to send the items to China, have the sewing done there (better quality than the local shop), and have the finished items shipped back to the US. When the demand grew high enough, they paid about half a million to have a machine built to do the sewing. Ultimately the company's cost was less, so the item could be sold for less. Had they not gone this route, they might not have been able to offer the item.

The original topic was AI taking jobs, but we've drifted over to simple automation.

The biggest threat from AI is that it will make some jobs where human input is needed obsolete. One of the biggest concerns is that accurate self driving vehicles mean that it may not be too long before AI takes over almost all driving and delivery services. Almost all long distance truck drivers, local delivery drivers, and even taxi drivers may disappear within our lifetimes. On the other hand, AI may be an incredible asset to professions like medical diagnostics because it can cross reference more information more quickly than a human.

Humans have had to adapt to every advance to every advance in technology and AI is just the next step. The industrial revolution put a lot of craftsmen out of work. Kurt Vonnegut wrote Player Piano about technology putting large numbers of people out of work in a short period of time.
1-May-24 10:42am
#11
lpeters82
250 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader

I understand the concern, however let's take a step back, or perhaps a step forward. If humanity automates it's ability to provide goods and services. Isn't that a good thing? We're going to have to adapt our economic system to adapt to this surplus of good and services, but if we can get the same amount of work done with less human effort that SHOULD simply lead to more leisure time. I used to think that leisure time would result in an arts renaissance. Now with the rise of automated art, I'm not so sure.
1-May-24 2:13pm
#12
benstylus
GameTZ Gold Subscriber GameTZ Full Moderator 550 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Gold Global Trader (9) Has Written 26 Reviews

lpeters82 wrote:
I understand the concern, however let's take a step back, or perhaps a step forward. If humanity automates it's ability to provide goods and services. Isn't that a good thing? We're going to have to adapt our economic system to adapt to this surplus of good and services, but if we can get the same amount of work done with less human effort that SHOULD simply lead to more leisure time. I used to think that leisure time would result in an arts renaissance. Now with the rise of automated art, I'm not so sure.
Ever the optimist I see.

Same amount of work with less human effort? In our current world of corporate capitalism, thst means CEOs and bean counters will say less human effort means less human pay.

Unless we want a dystopian future, then as a society we will need to either create new industries hat are both in demand and highly difficult to automate, or we must collectively move towards a paradigm where working for money is not the norm, and the phrase "earning a living" becomes obsolete.

As nice as communism may sound on the surface, human nature always seems to get in the way.

1-May-24 5:49pm
#13
Anxiouz
900 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader

In CA the minimum wage for "fast food restaurant employees" is now $20/hr. So anything that doesn't specifically require a human is going to get an even stronger look to automate.

The exaggerated argument I keep hearing is would you rather pay $20 for a burger at a place that has to pay more human employees, or $7 for a burger where some of the process is automated? People need to make a living but for fast food I don't want to be paying restaurant prices. Bring on the robots.
1-May-24 7:42pm
#14
Tony
Triple Gold Good Trader

Anxiouz wrote:
In CA the minimum wage for "fast food restaurant employees" is now $20/hr. So anything that doesn't specifically require a human is going to get an even stronger look to automate. The answer is simple if the executives and stockholders will take a little less to absorb the increase. However, we all know that late stage capitalism isn't going to let that happen. Fast food restaurants have raised their prices multiple times and streamlined many of their processes while the minimum wage has been stagnant, and all of the extra profits resulted in increased executive pay. The ratio of executive pay to minimum wage is much higher in the US than anywhere else in the world. McDonald's and other fast food workers in Europe make fair living wages and their prices are comparable to those in the US.

I believe I've told this story here before, but it bears repeating. I started working for McDonald's at $1.65/hr and the minimum wage was set to increase to $2.25/hr (about 33%) over a couple of years. McDonald's (and probably other fast food restaurants) lobbied Congress to be exempt, but was denied. A month or so after the first increase (to $1.90/hr), a restaurant industry magazine that the store put in our break area had an article that included the statement: "McDonald's MORE THAN EXPECTS to make up for the increase in minimum wage by increasing the price of its soft drinks by $0.05". At that time, this was a 33% increase (from $0.15 to $0.20 for a small drink) in only ONE menu item - and there were more humans behind the counter and doing food preparation then there are now.

Not included in any of the discussion was that anyone already making more than the minimum wage didn't get a raise for the full amount. They only got increased to the new minimum or just slightly higher. I had gotten "merit" raises and was making $1.90 when the first increase was to go into effect. New hires were increased from $1.65 to $1.90. I got increased to $1.95. My check got similar hits every time the increases were mandated.
2-May-24 12:52am
#15
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally

A400 lb dude in mom’s basement will single handedly end the AI revolution with his galaxy phone (Apple sux). 1000 years from now there will be statues and temples to him. And movies. No need to fear.
2-May-24 1:04am
#16
ft763
Global Trader - willing to trade internationally Has Written 1 Review Australia

Tony wrote:
Anxiouz wrote:> In CA the minimum wage for "fast food restaurant employees" is now $20/hr. So anything that doesn't specifically require a human is going to get an even stronger look to automate. > The answer is simple if the executives and stockholders will take a little less to absorb the increase. However, we all know that late stage capitalism isn't going to let that happen. Fast food restaurants have raised their prices multiple times and streamlined many of their processes while the minimum wage has been stagnant, and all of the extra profits resulted in increased executive pay. The ratio of executive pay to minimum wage is much higher in the US than anywhere else in the world. McDonald's and other fast food workers in Europe make fair living wages and their prices are comparable to those in the US. I believe I've told this story here before, but it bears repeating. I started working for McDonald's at $1.65/hr and the minimum wage was set to increase to $2.25/hr (about 33%) over a couple of years. McDonald's (and probably other fast food restaurants) lobbied Congress to be exempt, but was denied. A month or so after the first increase (to $1.90/hr), a restaurant industry magazine that the store put in our break area had an article that included the statement: "McDonald's MORE THAN EXPECTS to make up for the increase in minimum wage by increasing the price of its soft drinks by $0.05". At that time, this was a 33% increase (from $0.15 to $0.20 for a small drink) in only ONE menu item - and there were more humans behind the counter and doing food preparation then there are now. Not included in any of the discussion was that anyone already making more than the minimum wage didn't get a raise for the full amount. They only got increased to the new minimum or just slightly higher. I had gotten "merit" raises and was making $1.90 when the first increase was to go into effect. New hires were increased from $1.65 to $1.90. I got increased to $1.95. My check got similar hits every time the increases were mandated.
Interesting to me that the US has different standards when it comes to money. For example, you can expect to have a waiter complain about you if he doesn't get tips. Meaning that his base pay isn't that high. And I thought that people were pretty well paid in the country...

Compare that to Australia, where the minimum wage is AT LEAST $30 an hour, and that's only for a casual worker. thirty dollars is pretty good pay.
2-May-24 7:39am
#17
Tony
Triple Gold Good Trader

ft763 wrote:

Interesting to me that the US has different standards when it comes to money. For example, you can expect to have a waiter complain about you if he doesn't get tips. Meaning that his base pay isn't that high. And I thought that people were pretty well paid in the country... Compare that to Australia, where the minimum wage is AT LEAST $30 an hour, and that's only for a casual worker. thirty dollars is pretty good pay.
The US has many differences from the rest of the world that aren't necessarily better:

As pointed out above - tipping. In most other countries, a worker would be insulted if you offered them a tip. In the US, workers are insulted if you don't leave them a big enough tip.
My financial advisor just got back from Barcelona, Spain, where he said restaurant food was much better and eating out was much less expensive than in the US.
The US just got over "tax season". In many other countries, the government has all of the information on your income and sends you a tax bill. Unless you have a good explanation as to why it should be different, you pay it like any other bill. In the US, H&R Block and Turbo Tax lobbied Congress to keep the US system so complicated that people have to pay them to prepare a tax return.
The US created suburbs and then invested in roads and parking lots instead of mass transit. This made car ownership such a cultural goal that there are now more cars than licensed drivers.
The US is only one of the 33 most developed countries in the world that hasn't figured out socialized healthcare for its citizens.
The US in the only country in the world where mass shootings (4 or more injured or killed) are practically a daily occurrence.
2-May-24 9:54am
#18
BlueJava
Silver Good Trader

Why do idiots and I truly mean idiots think minimum wage workers are driving up costs when CEOs are making $5,000 an hour? Step back , turn off the news and figure out if the minimum wage worker riding a bike to work is driving inflation and not the CEO with multiple homes and vehicles... They'll get tax payer dollars because you idiots live corporate welfare.. Yes ... You 🤡🤡
2-May-24 10:01am
#19
Feeb
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally

Incentivizing work is a positive for the economy across the board. Everyone that decides to earn instead of living off of govt subsidies saves us all money. Politicians are just really good? at spinning the idea that low skill workers are lazy, not worth paying etc. all the while people are paying for DoorDash to bring them that burger someone flipped a few miles at twice the cost.
2-May-24 10:02am
#20
SublimeFan
300 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Gold Global Trader (7)

Anyone who has used AI tools knows they can't replace any role where non-decisive skill is needed. Some extremely low skill jobs will be replaced over time, but other places with the same roles will actually leverage humans for the same roles as a "competitive advantage".
2-May-24 1:57pm
#21
SwiftJAB
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader

My kid is 3 years old. I wonder if there will be robot repair jobs when he enters the workforce or if robots will be self-repairing in the next 15-20 years.


AI potentially replacing mass jobs...