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Rank the Marvel Cinematic Universe
12-Mar-21 1:50pm
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Old thread was archived due to the year+ without any MCU content, so here's a new one. With WandaVision wrapped up, this is now just a ranking of all the primary MCU projects in general. Plus my list changed drastically as I've re-watched certain movies over the past year and wanted to update it.

The old thread is at this link, for anybody who wants to go track down their most recent list or just skim over the previous conversations:

Obviously spoilers ahead...



Top tier: 1-10 Mid tier: 11-28 Bottom tier: 29-33

33. The Eternals (Phase IV) - My Rating: 5/10

Mega disjointed story, fudging TERRIBLE CG, and a final act that reminds me of the worst Fox X-Men movies. There were some awesome concepts here, some pretty cool characters, and great actors.... but I can't even find the right words to really break this one down. It was just bad.

32. Iron Man 2 (Phase I) - My Rating: 5.5/10

No longer "easily" the weakest movie of the MCU, but certainly one that I don't really like enough to ever feel like re-watching. Mickey Rourke's villain was waaay under-developed and, whie I love the actor, Sam Rockwell's villain was the poor man's Obidiah Stane. Also, I love Don Cheadle as War Machine, but you can't help but kind of feel like Terrence Howard would have played the role more naturally in this one. Black Widow was wasted here too, came off as a real flat "henchman" type character. The only real redeeming qualities were Robert Downey Jr. as Tony Stark/Iron Man once again. I did enjoy how they touched on Stark's alcoholic past from the comics in an updated way. That brief moment at the end where Iron Man and War Machine team up against the robots was neat too, even while still being the least memorable "showdown" of the entire MCU.

31. The Incredible Hulk (Phase I) - My Rating: 7/10

I seem to enjoy this one a lot more than the casual viewers but I can totally get where people are coming from. Edward Norton just didn't fit as Bruce Banner for me too much, definitely not the way Mark Ruffalo does now. He did well with the part, but it really just seemed like Edward Norton playing Edward Norton. Liv Tyler is a little "meh" in just about everything, too. The villains made this movie for me though, with Tim Roth's super-soldier-turned-Abomination standing out big time, along with General Ross for most of the movie. I loved that chase scene in Brazil, as well as the big showdown between the Hulk and the soldiers in the field. However, the CGI for both the Hulk and the Abomination teetered on the not-impressive side in my opinion, and it really showed during the climactic end battle. I thought it was kind of cool, but the movie had potential to have more than just a "loud, bang up" fight ending that was more-or-less just a rehash of Iron Man's climax. I did like that "Hulk smash" part though.

30. Iron Man 3 (Phase II) - My Rating: 7/10

This was originally a 6/10 and the second-to-last movie on my list. When I initially ranked it, I had only seen it once in the theaters. The "Trevor Slattery" twist left an awful taste in my mouth and that hampered my initial opinion. Watching it for the second time definitely softened my opinion. That "fake Mandarin" twist is still fudging awful, as is the "Batman Forever Jim Carrey/Riddler" arc of the primary villain (which was also revisited with Electro in Amazing Spider-man 2), but otherwise there is a good movie surrounding those. A much more mature tone with MANY jokes that aren't suitable for kids, lots of language that doesn't exist in the MCU other than this movie (calls a kid a pussy for crying out loud), and a real "James Bond" plot that sees Tony need to become the MCU equivalent to a 007 during a stretch where he doesn't have an Iron Man suit. The ending was also badass, with the multi-suit extravaganza - even if Age of Ultron nullified that bit entirely. Not as bad as I originally pegged it but still lower-tier for sure.

29. Thor: The Dark World (Phase II) - My Rating: 7/10

I love Thor, the character, and have since I was a young kid getting the "Journey Into Mystery" Marvel Masterworks hardcover from my dad. It may be that bias that causes me to enjoy the Thor movies over some more popular MCU movies, but oh well. I dug this one, with my only real complaint mirroring that of many - that the villain Maliketh, much like the Red Skull, seemed to be evil just for the sake of being evil. There was some backstory about how Odin wronged the Dark Elves, but it's really just skimmed over and no reasons are really given. Otherwise, I thought the cast did a fine job. People like to bicker about "too much Natalie Portman" in these movies, or too much time spent on Earth in general, but they seem to forget that both these aspects were huge to the early (most memorable) Thor comic books. Thor's essence was more-or-less trapped in a human doctor named Don, who had to tap his walking stick to turn into Thor, and he clamored over Jane Foster in just about every issue. So seeing Thor interact with Jane and her friends is fine in my opinion, it's something that the character has been doing since his creation. I loved the ending too, the glimpses into all the other realms was great and the final showdown was awesome. But when it comes to stark colored lulls in some of these superhero movies, unfortunately my man Thor falls real guilty at times here. Some scenes are actually kind of boring. And that faux-hand chopping scene seemed extremely rushed, as if they forgot to cram a bunch of character moments between Thor and Loki into the movie and had to do it all in one go. Still have a soft spot for this one, though - all the otherworldly tech and vehicles rule.

28. Hawkeye (Phase IV) - My Rating: 7/10

This was good and, considering I find Hawkeye to be super uninteresting, probably better than I expected. I dug Kate Bishop, I dug Hawkeye way more than I ever have, I dug the pizza dog. Yelena was cool as always, even if some of the comedy schtick got a bit tired. Echo was just badass enough to make me interested in her Disney+ show. I love this show for bringing Kingpin into the MCU, and then I hate it for sort of cartooning him up too hard. He was great in Daredevil, and the performance is still there, but his immunity to pain was such a strange touch. He was always strong and could take a beating, but he wasn't inhuman the way he was presented here. Assuming they didn't kill him off when they insinuated it, but if they did that'll be even worse. That out of the way, I also wasn't huge into the LARPing folks and thought it was a little silly that they played any role at the end. Otherwise, Jack was cool (even when he was teased as a villain), and Vera Farmiga ruled as always (even if her reveal was very predictable). And I don't know if this helps this show's argument, but major bonus points for leaning into the holiday season, will always dig that.

27. The Falcon and The Winter Soldier (Phase IV) - 7.5/10

This was solid and well-acted across the board with some truly memorable characters and moments. I really appreciated the social commentary being made with the show, and the elements they borrowed from the source material really fit with the themes and tone. However, it doesn't rank higher because it focuses on an A-plot that is stretched too long and too thin in the Flag Smashers, and develops an extremely riveting B-plot centered around John Walker that has a bitter-sweet payoff that ultimately disappointed me. While I enjoyed the acting, some of the characters sort of took a backseat to others - namely Bucky, who could have had a bit more to do here. Returns like Zemo and Sharon Carter were welcome, and while both characters left an impression I can't help but feel they were slightly under-utilized in the big picture. Zemo's mask definitely was, at least. But I really dug Sam becoming Cap, John Walker pre-finale, and anything involving Isaiah Bradley, so there was definitely enough good to outshine the bad.

26. Ant-Man and The Wasp (Phase III) - My Rating: 7.5/10

This was a fun follow up to the first movie but I honestly thought it paled in comparison. Some of the humor came off a lot more forced this time around, and none of the shrinking sequences were as fun as the first movie, save for maybe the car chase bit. I thought the villain was badass though - far more interesting than Yellow Jacket, and the connection between Hank and Goliath was a nice little comic nod that goes along way in the plot. And that post-credits scene was real memorable. Overall though it just kinda came off as the "obligatory sequel" where everything just tried to be bigger (literally in some aspects) but ended up coming off more-or-less the same.

25. The Avengers: Age of Ultron (Phase II) - My Rating: 7.5/10

Honestly felt a little bored the first time I watched this, but after a re-watch I realized I enjoyed it more than I thought. For a while, this would have been even lower on my list. I just feel like it was a little too long, a little too bland-looking (color pallet-wise) and a little too confusing. A lot of things had to be left to figure out or speculate on when that shouldn't have happened. I didn't like Kick Ass guy's take on Quicksilver, though Scarlett Witch ruled. I'd rather Ultron's look be closer to comics-Ultron, as opposed to just his little robot minions - but James Spader killed it in the voice acting department. I thought the ending was a little too close to The Avengers climax (big action set piece throughout a crowded city), and if it weren't for the floating city aspect it would have played exactly the same too. The Vision is one of my all-time favorites, so it was cool to see him show up, even if his debut scene was definitely a little lacking. They could have explained Thor's Jacuzzi scene a lot more, too. I also felt like Ultron's demise came on WAY too easily and quick, and some of the little comedy parts (little-Ultrons being scared of Hulk, for example) were rough. Overall though, this is a fun enough movie if a little disappointing.

24. Doctor Strange (Phase III) - My Rating: 7.5/10

This was a great movie really heightened by the main character and Cumberbatch. Guy nailed his stuff and brought a real weight to a the character who, while just as snarky, is a little more dark than Tony Stark. This movie as a whole was a little darker than the more colorful movies in the MCU while still achieving the colorful atmosphere that you'd expect when it comes to a Doctor Strange story. At the same time, the comedic front put up by Strange was a highlight of the film, his character seemed very real. There were a few iffy moments but for the most part this was wall-to-wall action - which was by far the most interesting part of the film. The trippy action sequences were a treat - including the climactic meeting with the evil force Dormammu. This film also featured a real, multi-layered primary villain whose motivation held water. No character in this movie was free of faults which leaves plenty of room for great character development. While I still prefer some earlier MCU entries, this movie stood out as a memorable adventure on its own merit.

23. Moon Knight (Phase IV) - My Rating: 7.5/10

Oscar Isaac puts on a masterclass in acting in each episode of this show, especially episode 5. It can't be overstated how great he did with the material, or the technical wonders the MCU had to have implemented to make his performance(s) come off so flawless. May Calamawy is also great as Layla, especially in the finale. Ethan Hawke was serviceable but the character itself was sort of one note and boring, I honestly enjoyed the trippy "psychologist vision" version of him more. The story was pretty straight forward action/adventure romp for the first 3 episodes, and then the last 3 added a much needed layer to the overall psychological side of it. I dug that it was self-contained with no larger connections to the MCU, and the post credits scene was pretty great. I loved the emphasis on mental health and the idea of learning to cope and work with the way one's brain works. All that said, for only being 6 episodes, the grand majority of the story just didn't click for me. If it weren't for Isaac's performance, it would have been a lot duller. The CGI was fudging awful in spots, but ended up getting better. The designs for the gods varied in quality, but they were still decently fun. For as "fresh" a take on a Marvel property as this was, the last episode is the epitome of the "big CG superhero third act" that the MCU gets valid criticism for often. Not only that, but that finale episode really felt disjointed and weirdly edited, with plot conveniences left and right. Overall, it was good enough and I am still looking forward to seeing where the character goes next (again, thanks to the post credits scene), but I'd be lying if I said it didn't leave a bit to be desired.

22. Captain Marvel (Phase III) - My Rating: 7.5/10

Pretty damn good. After a choppy first act it really picked up and I enjoyed it a lot. Normal try-hard Marvel humor at points but I appreciated that the origin bits were handled in an interesting, surprisingly artistic way instead of just a by-the-numbers origin story. It had actual character depth, weighty moments and all the action you'd expect. About as good as you can hope for when it comes to a superhero movie that leans more "sci-fi" than usual. I dig the world it set up and am looking forward to the inevitable sequel.

21. Captain America: Civil War (Phase III) - My Rating: 8/10

This movie was arguably saved by the second act and the emergence of the promising Spider-man character. Everything surrounding it felt a little rushed and, honestly, forgettable. A main string-pulling villain whose motivation and plan were really kind of weak and in turn made our two main Avengers, Iron Man and Captain America, look pretty stupid to get duped so hard. His initial issue with the heroes wasn't paid off well and couldn't deliver after the "main event" of the movie that featured the debut of Ant-Man's "Giant-Man" alter-ego fighting against Spider-man in the middle of a huge airport. This movie was the exact opposite of how I felt toward Age of Ultron - I thought I liked this movie more than I did until I re-watched it with my father a few weeks later and realized that I was actually kind of bored waiting for the Team Cap vs. Team Iron Man showdown. Once it came and went I almost didn't care enough to watch more but the finale fist fight is worth waiting for. I was definitely still more entertained by this than those ranked lower, obviously, and I really enjoyed the chemistry between RDJ and Chris Evans when they're playing off each other in more antagonistic roles. Their work really elevated this movie past the previous films on this list as they brought a real emotion to both their characters that added new layers even after years of playing them despite the wonky reasoning behind their conflict. And like I alluded to earlier, that climactic Winter Soldier/Captain America vs. Iron Man fist fight was both incredibly emotional and well-pulled off in terms of low-key action sequences. #TeamCap

20. Black Panther (Phase III) - My Rating: 8/10

Great movie, all around. The casting was perfect for each role, the effects were as good as you'd expect, and the plot was fantastic. It was a little too long and there were some questionable elements (armored rhinos were the worst) but for the most part it was an extremely fun adventure romp. While I'm not black, I can appreciate this movie on a different level for the cultural significance at has apparently held among the black community, so that alone gives it a boost. While Black Panther is a great character on his own, it's really the villains Killmonger and Klaue that standout in this movie for me. While the ending was beautiful, I do wish it panned out a little differently to leave a Killmonger return open - but the way he ended made perfect sense for the character, and it was an awesome send-off after the movie built him up as not only a threat, but an extremely sympathetic threat. Good stuff for sure.

19. Captain America: The First Avenger (Phase I) - My Rating: 8/10

This movie has grown on me big time, I used to think it came off way too much like an Avengers prequel - a film just to shoehorn Captain America into the fold before the movie everyone actually wanted to see. Which was sort of the case, but I shouldn't have let that sully my movie-going experience. When I learned to look at this one as a more adventure movie in the lieu of Indiana Jones as opposed to a superhero film, I began appreciating it a lot more. It's a straight forward story and it sets up a lot of the best parts of the current MCU. Though he gets some slack, I very much enjoyed the Red Skull in this one - even though he just seems to be evil for evil's sake. Regardless, I enjoy the subtle approach at Captain America's origin to the point that they even kept his costume extremely basic, saving the more popular looking outfit for The Avengers. This is a really fun movie.

18. Loki (Phase IV) - 8/10

To be honest I didn't love the start of this series. It took until the 3rd-4th episode, when things started getting really wild, to hook me. I feel the earlier episodes were packed with way too much exposition solely to pad the run time whereas were Loki to be a film, it would have taken 20 minutes to cover the same information. But the series definitely picked up with the inclusion of Richard E Grant and the opportunity to explore more Loki variants, and the finale was a masterclass in not just storytelling but also in transitioning an entire decade-old franchise into forward motion. At the time of this writing I haven't seen Kang in the MCU yet, but Jonathan Majors rules and his portrayal of He Who Remains was fantastic.

17. Thor (Phase I) - My Rating: 8/10

Pretty much everything positive I had to say about The Dark World applies here x10, except with this one the villain was outstanding and easily the most memorable of the whole MCU. Seeing the almost-Shakespearean rivalry between Thor & Loki play out within not only a family conflict, but a war between Asgard & the Frost Giants was definitely something to behold. I liked the Earth scenes more in this one than in the Dark World, too, and the showdown with the Destroyer was so badass (even if not entirely true to the comic book character its based off of). The battle on the rainbow bridge at the end was really fun stuff. But what really stood out to me as making this movie was the setting. It looked great - a perfect mixture of fantasy and science fiction (which Asgard was supposed to be, essentially). This was kind of lost in The Dark World, where the new director took Asgard's look in a more typical fantasy style (that is, until those Dark Elf tie-fighters showed up). Couple the setting with Loki and a great hero/villain rivalry, and this is a classic in my opinion. That's not a sentiment many agree with, but I thought Thor was just great.

16. Black Widow (Phase IV) - My Rating: 8/10

This movie uled and if it really was ScarJo's last outing as Black Widow, it MORE than lived up to that character. That whole last half hour was incredible. It was a more "grounded" story relative to the recent Avengers movies but it was the perfect cool down after Endgame and had far more spectacle than I'd expect out of a spy movie. I thought all the performances knocked it out of the park, especially the 4 leads. I really enjoyed the Taskmaster/Dreykov villain combo, even if the motivation was a little to "Bond" for its own good. Still, it made sense to the way the Red Room and the Black Widows had been built up in the MCU previously, this movie just took it a step farther as was the natural progression. My main complaint is that Black Widow survives a few too many life-ending occurrences without any issue. She survives falling several stories, bashing herself off various things on the way down, and still manages to land on her feet. That's a little silly, but far from the silliest thing we've seen out of the MCU so I didn't rub up against it too hard. All in all, a really great movie that just barely stays out of the top tier.

15. Ant-Man (Phase II) - My Rating: 8/10

If there's one thing I disliked here, it was how un-Paul Rudd Paul Rudd seemed. He was still funny, and in scenes seemed to come off the way we'd expect, but I was hoping for a much more comedic character. Regardless, the dude played one hell of a quasi-serious hero role. The supporting cast was awesome too, Evangeline Lily killed it as Hope - can't wait to see her as The Wasp. You could tell Corey Stoll was having a great time playing Yellow Jacket, and Michael Douglas actually seemed like he was having a good time too. And the physics-defying end battle was one of the best from the MCU, making such small set pieces seem so grand. This is what a superhero movie is all about, even if I feel this type of origin story was done a bit better in Iron Man.

14. The Avengers (Phase I) - My Rating: 8/10

I've seen this one so many times that it's actually started to wear a bit thin on me. For a long time Avengers would have been my number one, but with each re-watch, the plot holes stick out a bit more and the clumsy dialogue shines through big time. Other than that though, this is a near-perfect team up movie and the best product of a shared universe that the cinematic world has ever seen. You need to appreciate this movie just for what it is, a culmination of years of planning to bring these classic characters together in one movie. Bringing back Loki in his classic Avengers-villain role was a nice touch, and the Thanos hinting got any comic fan giddy when they first saw it. That shot of them all assembled in New York is a classic Hollywood moment now.

13. Guardians of the Galaxy (Phase II) - My Rating: 8.5/10

I really, really liked this movie. Taking the MCU on a sci-fi path was not what I saw coming until this was announced, but after seeing it, I was glad it happened. Some of it is a little clumsy and doesn't quite fit, but for the most part, it does. It's super entertaining action and characters with some of the coolest locations the MCU has given us. Knowhere in a giant Celestial's severed head is such a cool visual. The prison scene, the final battle, the dance-off... so many memorable things in this one. This is also the best ensemble cast the MCU has had yet, with the Guardians having even more on-screen chemistry than the Avengers in my opinion. Chris Pratt beefed up big time for the role and it worked out well, he did great in it. Some of the jokes were a little corny, but overall Star Lord is a top hero now thanks to this movie. All the subtle hints at his parentage left plenty of place for speculation, and one sign of a good movie is when it leaves you wanting more. GotG definitely did that.

12. Spider-man: No Way Home (Phase IV) - My Rating: 8.5/10

I'll admit this movie was a bit disjointed. There were a lot of storytelling shortcuts and "shrug off" moments (Ned's magic, Strange's attitude), but the pure nostalgic magic that the second half of this movie presents is enough to look past that stuff. Other than Tom Holland, who was legitimately great in this movie, Andrew Garfield stole the show. As someone not huge into the Amazing Spider-man movies, this really made me miss Garfield's take on it. Tobey Maguire was great too, and came off a lot more "real" than the original trilogy (which I obviously love). Willem Dafoe was another absolute highlight, that dude is horrifying. Jamie Foxx was as Jamie Foxx as ever, and while I dug this version of Electro, I don't really see much connective tissue to the character he's supposed to be reprising from ASM2. Sandman and Lizard were both pretty secondary, and neither had incredible CGI which made them a little less interested them. By the end battle, this is easily my favorite MCU Spider-man movie even though I know that's totally because it brought back the nostalgia within a story that's a little uneven.

11. Spider-man: Homecoming (Phase III) - My Rating: 8.5/10

Tom Holland was the best Peter Parker hands down, and really made me realize how old Tobey Maguire seems playing a graduating high school student in Spider-man 1. This dude had the quips and the confidence down and oozed the comic book character. It's wild for me to think we had the stuttering Andrew Garfeild approach just a few years ago, and already Holland shows up and just exudes this different, refreshing air for Peter Parker. Less angsty, more embracing of his heroic fate - just like the best incarnations of the character from the comics. The suit and all the various powers, adapted from numerous eras of the comic, were badass. I really enjoyed seeing Happy Hogan return, and the way they integrated the different aspects of past MCU movies was at its peak here. The characters were memorable. Ned was the fun relief sidekick. Flash Thompson was a whole new take on the character and I dug it. Incorporating both versions of Shocker from various Spider-man stories was neat, let alone having the Shocker at all. Michael Keaton stole the show with his memorable and unpredictable villain. This was a solid Spider-man movie that ranks there with the best of the genre. Deserving of the praise and the Spider-man legacy.

10. Spider-man: Far From Home (Phase III) - My Rating: 8.5/10

Homecoming was always just about on par with Spider-man 2 but this one stole the show. Save for Thor: Ragnarok, this is a comedic peak for the MCU too and, while it definitely had some staples of MCU storytelling, the cast and location really did well with presenting it differently. I was wondering how a Spider-man movie that takes place outside of NYC would play for me, personally, but it ended up being an extremely welcomed breath of fresh air. Holland continues to be the best theatrical Peter Parker. Mysterio did suffer from the same pitfalls as a lot of MCU villains - under-developed due to only appearing in one movie, with his entire true backstory coming during one real info-dumpy speech over the course of only one scene. But Gyllenhaal put in a great performance as the character. He made you believe that Mysterio could be an alright guy despite us all obviously knowing otherwise, and he really ramped up his intensity during the climax. His line "FIRE ALL THE DRONES" was about as loud and intense as I can remember Gyllenhaal. I dug the others in the cast too, all the characters given screen time did well. The MCU callbacks to movies like Iron Man and Captain Marvel were great, and the fudging cameo in the post-credits scene RULED. I audibly popped a "aw yes!" when it happened - and then the bombshell that was dropped on Spider-man himself was a great way to leave us on a cliffhanger while the MCU takes a few months off from releasing movies. Really fun stuff.

9. Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness (Phase IV) - My Rating: 8.5/10

I can only see this movie moving up my list upon re-watches. I had an immensely fun time watching this, with several "fist-pumping in theater" moments. If it weren't for the extended time with the movies higher on this list, I imagine this one would be pretty top-tier. Sam Raimi is turned up to 11 with his direction and, as a Raimi fan, I loved to see it. All performances were top notch but Elizabeth Olsen puts in a heroic performance as the Scarlet Witch (which is ironic considering she's full-blown villain here). I can understand the few polarizing opinions on her being the main baddie, but even though WandaVision ended on a generally positive note, everything we learn in that series sets up this role for Wanda to a tee. When she's stalking the heroes toward the end of the film, it's truly a thing of nightmares and I loved it. Doctor Strange was handled well here too, much better than in No Way Home, and seeing the different variants was awesome. "Defender" Strange as an undead proxy for MCU Strange was so badass, especially with that cloak of demons he used to get to Wundagore. America Chavez was really well utilized and it was nice seeing some LGBTQ+ representation in the MCU without it being a pandering element. And before this gets too long, I loved seeing the Illuminati. Krasinski as Mr. Fantastic was great and here's hoping he's back in a full fledged Fantastic Four movie eventually. Captain Carter ruled (and is a fudgein babe ps). It was nice to see Xavier back with the classic Animated Series hover chair (and music), and having an alternate Captain Marvel was great. By far my favorite of the Illuminati, though, was Black Bolt. I'm a huge fan of the Inhumans comics and was happy for the actor from that awful TV show get a comic-accurate whack at him on the big screen. All their deaths were grizzly as hell and absolutely not what one has come to expect from the MCU, with, again, Black Bolt's standing out most brutal to me. All in all, a great movie that's designed for repeat viewings. I loved it.

8. Avengers: Endgame (Phase III) - My Rating: 8.5/10

A very satisfying cap-off to the first 10/11 years of the MCU. All the throwbacks were great fun to see, and the return of the beloved "dusted" was fun. Even though this one is 5 on my list, there's a strong argument for the Cap/hammer moment being my absolute favorite moment of any MCU film. Tony's death was perfectly done - a callback to the end of Iron Man, but then the tragedy of him not uttering a single word during his final moments. Cap's story played out how I expected it more-or-less, and I thought it was a great send-off for him. It makes sense that he'd get the final scene when you think about how the Russo brothers had written all the Captain America movies since The First Avenger - this was them putting a definitive finale on the character (even if he does somehow show up again). Thanos was still a great threat, and I loved how they played around with different versions of him. I'd really need to write a novel to sum up my complete thoughts about this movie, so I'll just leave it at that. It was a great time to spend in a theater.

7. WandaVision (Phase IV) - My Rating: 8.5/10

I love Wanda and Vision is one of my favorite characters from the comics, so it was great to get to see these characters get some extended time to shine after being somewhat side-lined in the main movies. Seeing White Vision was honestly something I never expected, and I thought the philosophical conversation that ended his "arc" in this series was done perfectly. I also loved Agatha and she's easily one of the stronger MCU villains. Wiccan and Speed were a cool addition, even if things didn't pan out too well for them - though I do imagine these versions will appear later on down the line. Jimmy Woo, Darcy, and to a lesser extent, Hayward were welcome additions to the show. I loved the theorizing that was made possible by the week-to-week structure, even if just about every single one was debunked in service of a much more straight-forward story (which is fine by me for the most part). I loved how it wrapped up, with Wanda realizing her true abilities and finally becoming the triumphant Scarlet Witch. This could have been a 9.5 for me if it weren't for the Quicksilver/Pietro/Fietro/Ralph story. While Evan Peters' surprise appearance was one of the highlights of the show, and while it was neat to see him in the classic Halloween costume, how they handled his explanation for being there was lackluster. Theories/multiverse aside, he only had 2 scenes in the finale and they weren't very impactful by any means. If pulled off better, I could forgive them a bit easier for blatantly using fan expectations for "water cooler talk" only to completely side step it, but the reveal that he was Ralph was disappointing and dinged the score a bit. Still a great series with a great story that I could see moving up this ranking list as time goes (it's #6 at the time of this writing).

6. Avengers: Infinity War (Phase III) - My Rating: 9/10

The best Avengers movie for sure. It's a little too long (but I stress it didn't feel it), the tone shifts a bit (but it was pulled off nearly flawlessly), and it at one point it was jarring going from space-to-Earth (ONE time). Otherwise, this movie was nearly perfect. I enjoy Rangarok and Winter Soldier a bit more after only one viewing, because those movies fit incredible storytelling and fun stories into the average run time of these sorts of movies, but this movie was near perfect for what it was. The most impressive cast maybe ever, balanced as perfectly as you could imagine. The weight of the ending was lost for anyone who knows of future Marvel plans, but it was still extremely ballsy to end the big 10th year blow-off film on such a down-note. Perhaps my favorite post-credits scene since Iron Man or the first Avengers too. All around great outing from Marvel.

5. Iron Man (Phase I) - My Rating: 9/10

This is the best superhero origin story put to film yet, in my opinion. Just about as perfect a comic book origin adaptation as you can get. Robert Downey, Jr. killed it as Tony Stark, obviously, and has yet to kill it the same way so far. The action was great, the characters were great, the villain was great. The third act kinda fell flat during the final battle but picked right back up for the ending. The "I am Iron Man" deal was so, so good. And the post-credits scene that hinted at what was to come is legendary now. Sam Jackson showing up as Nick Fury was a stroke of genius.

4. Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings - 9/10

A better origin story than Iron Man... there, I said it. Never ever expected that, but I definitely think Shang-Chi takes the cake. It didn't waste time having us watch the true-and-tried trajectory of an origin movie by making us sit through a "fish out of water" story with a learning montage, instead it integrated flashbacks perfectly to accent what was happening in the current-day story perfectly. In fed us information as we needed it when the main plot required that we learn it. Simu Liu was great as Shang-Chi and I can't wait to see more of him in the MCU. Awkwafina was fudging great as Katy and I'm SO happy that this movie kept that relationship platonic and not romantic. Big step for the MCU. Everyone in the cast was great. Bringing Ben Kngsley back as Trevor Slattery was a stroke of genius and almost single-handedly redeemed his plot point in Iron Man 3, though Wenwu's explanation for how a splinter of the Ten Rings created a "boogie man" called the Mandarin to attack the US did a lot of good in that department too. A movie that redeemed Iron Man 3 was not something I was expecting. The whole third act, while definitely stepping into what would usually be the "common big CGI smash up" finale that most MCU movies get, this movie did so in a way that was so fresh and interesting and fun. Movie went from street level to "flying dragons around and battling them" level. Just an incredibly fun experience. Great stuff.

3. Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 (Phase III) - My Rating: 9/10

I love this movie. For a while, this one was just below the first but after a rewatch months later, I find myself relating to this one a whole lot more. I think the Starlord/Ego dynamic plays into that too. Not that my father and I are on bad terms, we're a little more distant than the childhood version of myself would have expected, so it hits strings there. It was both funnier and more emotional for me than the first. Pretty much the whole third act really moved me, I'm a sucker for father/son issues in films. That includes the best part of this film: Michael Rooker's Yondu. He played a much more complex role than the original lead on. Drax was on, Baby Groot was awesome, Star Lord was once again a great lead, the Gamora/Nebula arc was fantastically paid off here, and Rocket was once again the backbone of the movie. There were a few jokes that didn't hit, but most of them did for sure. Kurt Russel killed it as Ego and I loved his story. Great stuff.

2. Captain America: The Winter Soldier (Phase II) - My Rating: 9.5/10

Where the first Cap movie was a straight adventure, this was a straight action movie and didn't apologize for it once. The action in the MCU has never looked better and the character development was great here. At least for Cap, I could have done without the whole "Nick Fury lives" thing that the MCU is so fond of doing. But other than that, this movie delivered on all fronts. The follow up to Bucky Barnes' storyline was great too - The Winter Soldier is arguably the most badass villain any MCU movie has seen so far. It's almost a shame that he'll be put in the hero role sooner than later apparently, because the mechanic between he and Steve Rogers was the most interesting part of this film. The ending where we see that Bucky saved Cap at the last second was such a feel-good moment for us comic fans, though. And Robert Redford being in a superhero movie and actually looking like he gives a crap was just about one of the most off-putting but coolest things ever.

1. Thor: Ragnarok (Phase III) - My Rating: 9.5/10

I felt sort of guilty moving Spider-man down from 2 so quickly after it took that spot - but after finally geting around to Ragnarok, this is certainly one of the absolute best superhero movies I've ever seen. As a lifelong fan of Thor in particular, this was the movie I always knew he was capable of having. It actually surpassed my childhood imagination, as Thor was hardly the comedic vessel back then as he is nowadays. This movie ties up so many threads perfectly. Odin's whereabouts were handled beautifully. The Thor/Loki dynamic was explored far better here than any film before it, and it was used perfectly as the third cap to the Thor trilogy. Hulk being far more realized than ever before was cool, standing upright with his shoulders back. The Thor/Banner stuff was the comedic core. And this was definitely comedic - but it was equally as epic and heartfelt. This movie, upon a few more rewatches, could easily top my list. It really depends on whether I'm in a "political action drama" mood or a "fantasy sci fi" mood, but Winter Soldier definitely has some serious competition for me now. Also: CATE BLANCHETT'S HELA OMIGOD


Share yours if you feel like it!
12-Mar-21 2:01pm
GameTZ Subscriber 250 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally Has Written 2 Reviews

It's been a while since my last full re-watch. I think the last time was leading up to Endgame. After Endgame, we went back and re-watched a few of our favorites, but that's it. Not too much changed on my list since last time. I added WandaVision (which was really difficult to place), moved Captain Marvel down a bit since I've still only seen it the once and I think I rated it too highly then due to having just seen it at the time. I also swapped Homecoming and First Avenger. Part of me feels like WandaVision could go higher, but I also feel like maybe it shouldn't be quite as high as it is, so idk. I would definitely like to re-watch it in the near future.

24. The Incredible Hulk
23. Iron Man
22. Iron Man 3
21. Iron Man 2
20. Thor
19. Doctor Strange
18. Thor: The Dark World
17. Guardians of the Galaxy
16. Ant-Man
15. Captain America: The First Avenger
14. Spider-Man: Homecoming
13. Black Panther
12. Captain Marvel
11. Spider-Man: Far From Home
10. Ant-Man and the Wasp
9. Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2
8. The Avengers
7. Avengers: Age of Ultron
6. Captain America: Civil War
5. WandaVision
4. Avengers: Endgame
3. Avengers: Infinity War
2. Captain America: The Winter Soldier
1. Thor: Ragnarok

12-Mar-21 4:05pm
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I'm shocked y'all put Guardians II above the OG. I need to go back and rewatch both to see if I'm just remembering them differently.
12-Mar-21 4:47pm
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@theJaw Nice topic. Hard to compile a list though, since there are many Marvel movies I haven't yet seen. I haven't seen at least 10 of the ones below.
12-Mar-21 4:54pm
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader This user is on the site NOW (1 minute ago)

SwiftJAB wrote:
I'm shocked y'all put Guardians II above the OG. I need to go back and rewatch both to see if I'm just remembering them differently.
I think the villain is way better, and the whole third act is so well executed.

Also really the only Marvel movie that makes me cry, there I said it. That ending wrecks me. I got teary eyed during Endgame just from pure "awesome" spectacle, and the finale of WandaVision got me a bit misty, but GOTG2 hits the soft spots. Sucker for a father/son story.
12-Mar-21 8:34pm
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Yeah, GotG2 is great. Yondu steals the show.
13-Mar-21 9:18am
GameTZ Subscriber 250 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally Has Written 2 Reviews

I actually think the first GotG is pretty overrated (for an MCU movie). It's ok, but each time I re-watch it, I like it a little less. GotG2 has gotten better with repeated viewings though.
15-Mar-21 3:29pm
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My list has definitely changed over the years. Some of it is due to multiple rewatches with them being on Epix and TNT/TBS every single day.

-------Lower Tier-------

24. Thor: The Dark World - It's just a boring film. The premise makes very little sense. It feels like a very low stakes movie as well

23. Black Panther - I know I'll get roasted for this one, but I really don't like this movie. It is very cliche, and I found most of it boring. The CGI in the final battle is laughably bad. I really don't get the love for this one.

22. The Incredible Hulk - It hurts to put this one so low since I love Edward Norton. It's just a boring film with little implications on the rest of the MCU. It also suffers from the early MCU trope of the main villain having closely related powers to the hero.

21. Iron Man 2 - I know this is not a great movie. The villain is very bland. The plot is boring. It's very underwhelming in the grand scheme of the MCU. The saving grace here is the introduction of Black Widow and the greater implications in the MCU. Black Widow is my favorite Avenger (or at least she was until WandaVision), so it's fun to go back and watch this one every once in a while.

---------Middle Tier--------

20. Iron Man 3 - This is a very uneven film. I like the story arc for Tony Stark. The plot really dives deep into his personality and sets up his motivation for future MCU flims. The problem is, again, there are little to know consequences. It feels like it's own film, separated from everything that comes after it. He retires from being Iron Man...until the next movie. His iron fleet is impressive, but they break apart like cans. Iron Patriot never exists again...

19. Thor - One character saves this film...Loki. Thor is not a very good character at first. It's hard to feel anything for him. Loki, on the other hand, is a great villain. He's not evil for the sake of being evil. He has real motivations, and that helps elevate him to a much higher status than most early MCU villains.

18. Ant Man and the Wasp - I really enjoyed this one in the theater, but I feel asleep trying to rewatch it. It's just...boring. The villain is underwhelming. It is also very disconnected from the greater MCU with the exception of the final scene.

17. Ant Man - Maybe it's because I've seen it so much, but I find this one to be boring now. I used to have it higher up the list, but I'm not a big fan anymore.

16. Dr. Strange - Such a weird movie, but they made it work. I enjoyed this one, probably based on the performances more than the story.

15. Captain America: The First Avenger - I really do enjoy this film. It was a difficult task to set up Captain America for the 21st century. I never thought for a second that I would like Captain America. He's just such a dumb, old fashioned character. This movie was smart to put him in the WW2 era and have him frozen to set up current day Steve. The biggest problem with this movie is the villain. Red Skull is such a great character, but this movie wastes the potential of the character and the fantastic actor they got to play him.

14. Captain Marvel - This one dropped a lot on my list because repeated viewings have left me a bit bored. The beginning, before they come to Earth, is particularly bad. I still do enjoy it. I really like the chemistry between Fury and Carol, and I think the Kree/Skrull storyline will be important moving forward in the MCU.

13. Spiderman: Homecoming - This has also dropped a bit over the years. It's still a great movie, and I think Tom Holland is an excellent Spiderman (my favorite so far). I think this was too low stakes for a Spiderman movie. I like that they focused on a lesser known villain than we usually see. I know they were aiming for a friendly neighborhood Spiderman still in high school. Hopefully the third film gets into more high stakes Spiderman stories.

---------High Tier-------------

12. Guardians of the Galaxy 2 - The only problem I have with this one is Ego. The rest of the movie is great. The Yondu plot is great. The characters and the comedy really make this film a fun watch.

11. Spiderman: Far From Home - Again, I like how they focused on a lesser known Spiderman villain. This one was a lot of fun. Admittedly, I haven't seen this one as much as the others, so it could go up or down on my list in the future.

10. Guardians of the Galaxy - This one has lost a little of it's luster for me, but it's still a great film. It's funny because I knew nothing about this before it came out and thought it was going to be so stupid.

9. Avengers: Age of Ultron - This is not at the level of the other Avengers movies, but it's still a really fun movie. I love the Hulk vs. Iron Man Hulkbuster battle, and the introduction of Wanda and Vision makes this one stand out.

8. Iron Man - This is how you do an origin story. It still holds up today. There are tons of classic lines from this one, and Tony's ark is one of the best in the MCU. Tony's complete ark from IM to End Game is incredible. The only character ark that comes close is Thor's, but that one still has time to develop.

7. WandaVision - Man, I loved this show. I was already loving Wanda. After End Game, with Black Widow dead, I was leaning towards Wanda as my new favorite Avenger, but this show helped solidify it.

6. Avengers: End Game - Part of this being so high is emotional reactions to certain scenes. On one hand, this would not have worked if it wasn't for the 22 films that came before it. In my opinion, it was a bit disappointing after the greatness that was Infinity War. On the other hand, it had to be incredible difficult to wrap up such a huge story. The biggest problem is it's not the same Thanos that they lost to, so it kind of takes away the emotional impact of the win. The good news is the good far outweighs my critiques, so it is pretty high up on my list.

5. The Avengers - Back when this came out, I remember thinking it was going to be stupid. Boy was I wrong. What else can be said about it. It's iconic by this point. Everything just worked.

--------Godly Thor Tier---------

4. Captain America: The Winter Soldier - From a pure story perspective, this could be #1. It's dropped all the way to 4 because my top 3 are just incredible. I can watch this one a hundred times and never get bored.

3. Captain America: Civil War - This was so well done. You understand everybody's motivation, and it just feels so natural. Tony and Steve being on opposite sides and digging their heals in makes perfect sense. The villain using that division to his advantage makes sense. Steve protecting Bucky makes sense. It's just all so well done. It also introduces Spiderman and Black Panther, and they both steal the show. It's a great film.

2. Thor Ragnorok - It's amazing what a new director and new vision can accomplish. This is SO MUCH BETTER than the other two Thor films. This one was incredible

1. Avengers: Infinity War - This is easily my #1. It's action packed from beginning to end. The comedy still holds up, even after multiple viewings. The ending was the most shocking and unexpected ending of any blockbuster film in my lifetime (including Empire), and it still holds up. And Thor's entrance into Wakanda still gives me goosebumps, even after multiple viewings.
15-Mar-21 4:17pm
GameTZ Subscriber 250 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally Has Written 2 Reviews

@bonham2 Pretty solid list. I've only seen Black Panther twice, I could see moving it down a bit in my ranking, but 23rd seems really low! I'm surprised you find Ant-Man and the Wasp boring, I think that's one of the funnest/funniest MCU movies.
15-Mar-21 8:57pm
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I don't get the love for Black Panther. I understand the cultural significance. Other than that, I felt it was a completely generic action film. It's Rocky 3 but with superheroes.

It's probably the only movie that I couldn't wait for it to end, and I haven't watched it twice. I also couldn't get past the horrible CGI. The CGI is on the level with X-men Origins Wolverine.
15-Mar-21 9:16pm
GameTZ Subscriber Triple Gold Good Trader This user is on the site NOW (1 minute ago)

It's not a favorite of mine and I agree the CG isn't as top notch as other MCU movies, but it's nowhere near Origins lol. Should also be noted that the movie wasn't "locked" until like 4 weeks before release or something like that, and for one reason or another the crew was forced to rush animation toward the end of the movie, thus armored rhinos and the train fight.

I appreciate it for not skimping on the setting or the culture of the characters - they didn't try to make it more "approachable" for us folks in the states who aren't as knowledgeable about that sort of lifestyle. I also dig the characters, and the dynamics between them and their factions. The villain is one of MCU's best with actual motivation and a relatable backstory. There is also some real GOOD CG in the movie before the third act, especially the landscapes and setting, and a few tense action scenes during the second act. Cinematography was also great with the huge sprawling establishing shots.

I definitely wasn't bored with it whatsoever, even if it doesn't rank super high on my list. The only movie that REALLY bores me is Iron Man 2, and then stretches of Incredible Hulk, Age of Ultron and Iron Man 3 do too.
15-Mar-21 11:09pm
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Each of those movies has some boring sections. Heck, even End Game dragged a bit in the middle. Black Panther pretty much bored me through the majority of the 2nd and 3rd acts. Also, I don't care what the reason is for the bad CGI. I don't care if elementary school children were working on it. It sucked. The final battle is easily the worst looking scene in all of the MCU. That is something out of a video game. A movie the size and scope of something like Black Panther demands better CGI.
15-Mar-21 11:36pm
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Welp I still disagree that it "sucked", it was a step below for sure but certainly nowhere near the worst that I've ever seen. Personally I feel the shots of Banner in the Hulk Buster with his little head poking out in Infinity War looked just as bad if not worse. And my mentioning the reason for the lesser-than CG in the third act wasn't an attempt to make you care necessarily, I was just sharing the legitimate reason it looked the way it did. A rare misfire in the scheduling department for Marvel.

Regardless, after Steppenwolf in the original Justice League movie, literally anything in the MCU looks like gold in the CG department. Would take Superman vs. an armored rhino from Black Panther over that mess any day.
16-Mar-21 11:23am
GameTZ Subscriber 250 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally Has Written 2 Reviews

I have no eye for bad cgi, at least not "bad by today's standards". CGI in older movies looks awful most of the time now. But I honestly never noticed a problem with the CGI at the end of Black Panther until people were talking about it so much and I looked it up. I guess I see it, but it doesn't look that bad to me.

@theJaw I can understand the other movies you mentioned, but which parts of Age of Ultron bore you?
16-Mar-21 1:39pm
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@scott the color palette is the main thing, the movie seems sorta muted compared the the first as far as color goes. But also tbh anything else with Ultron+the twins was sorta boring. Wanda grew into one of my favorites but Quicksilver remains one of my least, and their stuff in AoU just didn't do it for me. I loved Spader as Ultron but unless he was interacting with the heroes or Vision, the scenes sorta dragged. I also wasn't blown away by the third act climax. If it wasn't for the floating city effect, it was essentially the same ending as the first Avengers movie, just a bunch of nameless, faceless pawns getting blasted by the Avengers throughout a city. Then there are all the "visions", and Thor's real dumb jacuzzi stuff that was shoehorned in and didn't add anything to the actual story of the movie.

I like AoU more these days than I did a while back but it's still sort of a jumbled mess at times, and is easily the worst Avengers movie out of the 4.
16-Mar-21 3:04pm
GameTZ Subscriber 250 Trade Quintuple Gold Good Trader Global Trader - willing to trade internationally Has Written 2 Reviews

@theJaw It's been a while since I've watched it (I'm thinking a full re-watch is in order soon) but AoU is the MCU film that improved the most for me after repeated viewings, to the point that I now like it even better than A1. The biggest thing I didn't like about it is the final battle, which you mentioned, but it still has plenty of good moments throughout, even if it mirrors A1 too much, and Ultron wasn't defeated in a particularly satisfying way. I liked Wanda a lot in it, and I even liked Quicksilver and hated that he dies at the end. Hulk vs Iron Man in Hulkbuster suit was great. I actually thought the visions were interesting, but Thor's wasn't explained well-enough. Vision was of course great as well.
16-Mar-21 11:50pm
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theJaw wrote:
Welp I still disagree that it "sucked", it was a step below for sure but certainly nowhere near the worst that I've ever seen. Personally I feel the shots of Banner in the Hulk Buster with his little head poking out in Infinity War looked just as bad if not worse. And my mentioning the reason for the lesser-than CG in the third act wasn't an attempt to make you care necessarily, I was just sharing the legitimate reason it looked the way it did. A rare misfire in the scheduling department for Marvel. Regardless, after Steppenwolf in the original Justice League movie, literally anything in the MCU looks like gold in the CG department. Would take Superman vs. an armored rhino from Black Panther over that mess any day.
Lol, I agree with you on the Justice League comparison. I'm hoping the 4 hour Snyder release on Thursday improves on it greatly, although I read that the CGI is still poor in areas. Comparing anything MCU to that train wreck of a movie is not fair to the MCU. The theatrical release of Justice League was absolutely horrible.

The problem with much of the poor CGI we see nowadays has to do with shadows, natural movement, and weight. Many times we don't know what is wrong with the scene. We just know it doesn't look right. An example would be if the light source doesn't create shadows on the right areas or when a character seems weightless. In JL, Steppenwolf seems like he's not even there. The heroes are punching at nothing, and it's added in.

The final scene in Black Panther suffers from all of these issues. There is no real light source in the underground fight, and both characters are wearing black, so there are no shadows and very little contrast with the surroundings. They seem to move very unnaturally. And they both seem like they are completely weightless. It's a bad scene.

By comparison, Thanos is an absolute CGI success. It wouldn't have worked if he looked like a real human or if he looked too cartoony. He is perfect. He has stubble. He has emotions. Characters react to him naturally. He seems to hit with real force and take real blows, so he has weight. The shadows on his face are always perfect. That is some of the best CGI I have ever seen. I have no answer for Banner's head in the Hulkbuster suit. It's ridiculous. I can only assume they had him as Hulk (see the trailers)and had to change to Hulkbuster with very little notice. That's the only explanation I can think of.
20-Mar-21 11:33pm
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@bonham2 I definitely don't disagree with anything you said there, I think we're just on different thresholds for how hard lesser-than CGI affects our overall opinions of a scene and/or movie. Your criticisms are valid for sure, the things you mentioned just don't negatively affect the experience I got from the rest of the movie the same way it does you. Which is fine obv, different opinions are what make this sort of stuff fun to talk about.

ANYhow, unrelated, I was wondering where Zack Snyder's Justice League would rank among the MCU movies and tbh, I think it'd land right at #17, pushing Captain Marvel to #18 while keeping Civil War at #16. Which, much to my own surprise, means that on any given day, I'd likely rather watch ZSJL, a 4-hour movie, over Captain Marvel, Doctor Strange, Age of Ultron, Ant-man and the Wasp, Incredible Hulk, or either Iron Man sequel. Didn't expect to type that out in my lifetime. Still not as good as top tier MCU (and only just skirting the line into middle tier), but I didn't expect to enjoy the Snyder cut as much as I did and definitely didn't expect to enjoy a Snyder DC movie more than any MCU movie.
21-Mar-21 10:36am
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I started ZS Justice League with my boys, but we couldn't finish it yet. So far, it's far superior to anything in the original. The Steppenwolf/Amazon battle was great. And the Wonder Woman bank scene was much better too. It really makes you wonder why the hell Joss Whedon changed those scenes...was it a time issue or did he think his version was better? Steppenwolf looks much better too. I think my biggest problem all of the DC movies is the tone is just wrong. Superman is my all time favorite superhero, but his DCEU version is horrible, and then the about face in the theatrical Justice League where he was going joking and happy just didn't fit at all, either with the tone of the movie or with the character they had already set up.

I will definitely reserve judgement until after I've completed it, but so far, so good.

21-Mar-21 3:07pm
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@bonham2 that whole Amazon/Steppenwolf sequence may be my favorite scene... it's just so epic in scope.

Through interviews and whatnot it's become clear that WB wanted a more accessible 2 hour movie so that they could sell more tickets per day, and then you add that to the fact that Whedon's cut does everything it possibly can to "brighten" the tone (including literally brightening the movie with color correction) and it becomes obvious they reeaally just wanted an Avengers knock off. It was probably the most boneheaded example of studio tampering I've ever heard of, attempting to turn what is essentially the LOTR of superhero movies into a normal 2 hour team-up movie. After all, it's clear that Wonder Woman and Aquaman were going in complete opposite directions than the Snyder cut, tone-wise, so they were probably just trying their hardest to make the theatrical JL's tone match those other movies. They failed even at that.

I cannot fathom the idea that anyone looked at the theatrical cut next to the Snyder cut and considered it "better", that would be absurd. I think by the time Whedon finished his cut, WB were ready to just hedge their bets and roll with whatever punches came their way. It's clear they just wanted the DC equivalent to the MCU and Snyder was giving them the DC equivalent to Tolkein.

Also, I agree that MoS and BvS dropped the ball on Superman the way he's most commonly presented. Cavill works perfectly but the material he was handed just wasn't "Superman". However, ZSJL is easily the most accurate they've come to Superman and his true personality in these new DC movies (costume not withstanding), and it's a shame we won't see more of it (though, if reports/hints in this movie are to be believed, he wouldn't have been classic Superman for very long in potential sequels anyways so whatev I guess).
23-Mar-21 11:55am
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Ew, what's this DC garbage doing in the MCU thread??

Rank the Marvel Cinematic Universe