Wrestling Discussion
2-Oct-19 7:16pm
#1 Sun
Other thread was closed...so here we are.
Anyone else excited for AEW Dynamite tonight?
#1 Sun
| This topic had many older posts which were moved here: https://gametz.com/G... |
Other thread was closed...so here we are.
Anyone else excited for AEW Dynamite tonight?
10-Mar-24 6:22pm
#81 theJaw
He's just one piece of the puzzle there. You need to spend money to make it, and he's an incredible wrestler. He's worth it for the risk alone and deserves the bag.
At the risk of getting negged up for my take here (obv not trying to argue) -- but the ratings discourse is pointless. Dynamite's constantly the top show on Wednesdays for TBS and oftentimes the top show on cable for the night. Constantly touted as a top brand by WBD. They don't need to be doing WWE numbers, ratings-wise, to be successful in that metric. They could stay the course and WBD should be perfectly happy with the performance unless something huge changes the TV landscape... which doesn't seem to be happening considering the Nielsen ratings are getting less and less important every year. Even WWE's highest rated show only barely sneaks into the annual Top 100... so AEW's ratings really are a nonissue. Wrestling is niche, nothing is changing that.
Already got into the ticket sale/building size thing and it was as unpopular to defend here as I'm sure it is to defend AEW's ratings, so I won't get into all that again. I'll just say that of course they could be doing better in that regard.
As a fan, all I care about is good wrestling on my wrestling shows. I don't care about ratings or ticket sales -- though I do admit I've been duped into doing this research in the past to see if there really is anything behind all the doomposting on the internet... but there really isn't. At the end of the day, Khan could've paid Okada 300 million and it'd mean absolutely nothing to me, it's his money to spend... if it translates to good wrestling and another attractive spot for wrestlers to make money, I'm down for it.
#81 theJaw
He's just one piece of the puzzle there. You need to spend money to make it, and he's an incredible wrestler. He's worth it for the risk alone and deserves the bag.
At the risk of getting negged up for my take here (obv not trying to argue) -- but the ratings discourse is pointless. Dynamite's constantly the top show on Wednesdays for TBS and oftentimes the top show on cable for the night. Constantly touted as a top brand by WBD. They don't need to be doing WWE numbers, ratings-wise, to be successful in that metric. They could stay the course and WBD should be perfectly happy with the performance unless something huge changes the TV landscape... which doesn't seem to be happening considering the Nielsen ratings are getting less and less important every year. Even WWE's highest rated show only barely sneaks into the annual Top 100... so AEW's ratings really are a nonissue. Wrestling is niche, nothing is changing that.
Already got into the ticket sale/building size thing and it was as unpopular to defend here as I'm sure it is to defend AEW's ratings, so I won't get into all that again. I'll just say that of course they could be doing better in that regard.
As a fan, all I care about is good wrestling on my wrestling shows. I don't care about ratings or ticket sales -- though I do admit I've been duped into doing this research in the past to see if there really is anything behind all the doomposting on the internet... but there really isn't. At the end of the day, Khan could've paid Okada 300 million and it'd mean absolutely nothing to me, it's his money to spend... if it translates to good wrestling and another attractive spot for wrestlers to make money, I'm down for it.
10-Mar-24 6:27pm
#82 BucketofJustice
He’s a big star. In Japan. I don’t think he will move the needle 4.5 million dollars worth here in the US. At least not yet. I do think wrestlers should be paid way more, but the return on investment for Okada isn’t there yet. I hope it gets there for AEW’s sake, because more money is good for everyone and theoretically should yield a better product for everyone.
#82 BucketofJustice
He’s a big star. In Japan. I don’t think he will move the needle 4.5 million dollars worth here in the US. At least not yet. I do think wrestlers should be paid way more, but the return on investment for Okada isn’t there yet. I hope it gets there for AEW’s sake, because more money is good for everyone and theoretically should yield a better product for everyone.
10-Mar-24 6:37pm
#83 theJaw
BucketofJustice wrote:
He’s a big star. In Japan. I don’t think he will move the needle 4.5 million dollars worth here in the US. At least not yet. I do think wrestlers should be paid way more, but the return on investment for Okada isn’t there yet.
After one week and a single squash match, of course it's not there yet. He'll at least help retain the audience they already have, which is already enough to satisfy the network they need to satisfy.
That term "needle mover" needs to be retired haha. Didn't Roman Reigns say it in a promo and then suddenly everyone started saying it? To be fair, sometimes it's not about moving a needle and more about keeping a product fresh. If the needle doesn't necessarily need to move, then the latter is more important.
I hope it gets there for AEW’s sake, because more money is good for everyone and theoretically should yield a better product for everyone.
This is exactly how I feel too. Hopefully it pans out to be good for everyone -- including folks outside AEW and for other promotions in general.
#83 theJaw
BucketofJustice wrote:
He’s a big star. In Japan. I don’t think he will move the needle 4.5 million dollars worth here in the US. At least not yet. I do think wrestlers should be paid way more, but the return on investment for Okada isn’t there yet.
After one week and a single squash match, of course it's not there yet. He'll at least help retain the audience they already have, which is already enough to satisfy the network they need to satisfy.
That term "needle mover" needs to be retired haha. Didn't Roman Reigns say it in a promo and then suddenly everyone started saying it? To be fair, sometimes it's not about moving a needle and more about keeping a product fresh. If the needle doesn't necessarily need to move, then the latter is more important.
I hope it gets there for AEW’s sake, because more money is good for everyone and theoretically should yield a better product for everyone.
This is exactly how I feel too. Hopefully it pans out to be good for everyone -- including folks outside AEW and for other promotions in general.
10-Mar-24 7:41pm
#84 theJaw
Anyone throwing down for 2K24? Hearing it’s peak WWE game this year. I’m prob gonna snag a used copy eventually.
#84 theJaw
Anyone throwing down for 2K24? Hearing it’s peak WWE game this year. I’m prob gonna snag a used copy eventually.
10-Mar-24 8:19pm
#85 PizzaTheHutt
For the needle mover phrase, that was just Roman being a company man, like Jericho is now, just say what you think is expected of you to please whoever is signing your checks.
I think Roman said it in an interview when asked what he thought about CM Punk going to AEW. In CM Punk's defense, he did move the needle quite a bit for AEW, and since he left they've still not quite recovered. But you know how it goes, asking someone in one company what they think of something going on in the other company, of course they usually won't give proper credit when due. Roman wouldn't say that now that CM Punk is back in WWE, unless it was planned to lead up to a storyline down the road. Just like I'm sure Batista would only have good things to say about AJ Styles now that he's in WWE, compared to 20 years ago when he was in TNA and Batista had nothing good to say about him in interviews.
As for fans criticizing a company's ratings or ticket sales, I don't see why it's a problem, it's harmless unless it gets to the point where the conversation turns toxic. I'm not a sports fan but what I've learned from people who are is that the fans (conveniently of the losing team) always know what the right play to call is better than that good-fer-nothin' coach does. Or compared to other scripted shows, I'm not a Game of Thrones fan but everyone who was seemed to know how that series could've ended better than the writers it did.
I don't dare say I know how to drive up ticket sales more than Tony knows, but I'd start with maybe smaller venues depending on what market you're in. All those B2G1 ticket deals last year were not a good look for a company that is the #2 promotion in the country. ECW could've easily drawn more than 2,500 fans in Hammerstein when they'd be in the Tri-State area, but even Paul Heyman knew they'd have no chance of selling out MSG, so he didn't even try (he probably couldn't afford it regardless).
#85 PizzaTheHutt
For the needle mover phrase, that was just Roman being a company man, like Jericho is now, just say what you think is expected of you to please whoever is signing your checks.
I think Roman said it in an interview when asked what he thought about CM Punk going to AEW. In CM Punk's defense, he did move the needle quite a bit for AEW, and since he left they've still not quite recovered. But you know how it goes, asking someone in one company what they think of something going on in the other company, of course they usually won't give proper credit when due. Roman wouldn't say that now that CM Punk is back in WWE, unless it was planned to lead up to a storyline down the road. Just like I'm sure Batista would only have good things to say about AJ Styles now that he's in WWE, compared to 20 years ago when he was in TNA and Batista had nothing good to say about him in interviews.
As for fans criticizing a company's ratings or ticket sales, I don't see why it's a problem, it's harmless unless it gets to the point where the conversation turns toxic. I'm not a sports fan but what I've learned from people who are is that the fans (conveniently of the losing team) always know what the right play to call is better than that good-fer-nothin' coach does. Or compared to other scripted shows, I'm not a Game of Thrones fan but everyone who was seemed to know how that series could've ended better than the writers it did.
I don't dare say I know how to drive up ticket sales more than Tony knows, but I'd start with maybe smaller venues depending on what market you're in. All those B2G1 ticket deals last year were not a good look for a company that is the #2 promotion in the country. ECW could've easily drawn more than 2,500 fans in Hammerstein when they'd be in the Tri-State area, but even Paul Heyman knew they'd have no chance of selling out MSG, so he didn't even try (he probably couldn't afford it regardless).
10-Mar-24 8:40pm
#86 theJaw
Yah I don’t disagree with anything you’re saying. I’m for sure not saying that discussing ratings is inherently a bad thing. I just don’t take much stock in it. Like you said, it mainly depends on whether the conversation gets toxic or not - unfortunately AEW’s ratings attract that too much. There are just lots of folks who act like AEW’s ratings are poor but they only use WWE as a measuring stick, which just doesn’t track.
It’s a bunch of doomposting when AEW’s ratings are objectively what the network is looking for and is happy with. We know that because WBD said that, it isn’t a guess… but folks still argue tooth-and-nail that their ratings are awful and that they’re doomed because of it when that isn’t true (not saying you suggested that btw). At least with sports or something like GOT - those are subjective opinions being discussed ya know? AEW’s ratings being poor isn’t really up for subjective opinion — though the quality of the show totally is of course.
#86 theJaw
Yah I don’t disagree with anything you’re saying. I’m for sure not saying that discussing ratings is inherently a bad thing. I just don’t take much stock in it. Like you said, it mainly depends on whether the conversation gets toxic or not - unfortunately AEW’s ratings attract that too much. There are just lots of folks who act like AEW’s ratings are poor but they only use WWE as a measuring stick, which just doesn’t track.
It’s a bunch of doomposting when AEW’s ratings are objectively what the network is looking for and is happy with. We know that because WBD said that, it isn’t a guess… but folks still argue tooth-and-nail that their ratings are awful and that they’re doomed because of it when that isn’t true (not saying you suggested that btw). At least with sports or something like GOT - those are subjective opinions being discussed ya know? AEW’s ratings being poor isn’t really up for subjective opinion — though the quality of the show totally is of course.
11-Mar-24 7:05pm
#89 theJaw
Stephanie McMahon was No. 3, and was aware of other inappropriate sexual relations Vince had with employees.
#89 theJaw
Stephanie McMahon was No. 3, and was aware of other inappropriate sexual relations Vince had with employees.
12-Mar-24 4:46pm
#90 PizzaTheHutt
I don't think Sami vs GUNTHER is the way to go. I think it really should've been Chad Gable who won last night. Sami got his WrestleMania Moment™ last year winning the tag titles with his BFF Kevin Owens, I don't think him beating GUNTHER will top that. This could've been Chad's time to shine.
#90 PizzaTheHutt
I don't think Sami vs GUNTHER is the way to go. I think it really should've been Chad Gable who won last night. Sami got his WrestleMania Moment™ last year winning the tag titles with his BFF Kevin Owens, I don't think him beating GUNTHER will top that. This could've been Chad's time to shine.
12-Mar-24 6:16pm
#92 theJaw
The only way I wanted Gunther to drop the IC belt at Mania was if it were to Gable. That way, a great wrestler who truly deserves the push would win his first major singles title in a huge moment and would be “made” by pinning Gunther.
Sami’s been IC champion already, he doesn’t need to win it again and he got a great feel-good Mania moment last year. For those reasons, I don’t see him beating Gunther at Mania. Gunther will continue on for a while.
That said, the match is going to be awesome - so I can’t be upset in that regard. But yah, I would have preferred they cap off the Gable/Gunther story.
#92 theJaw
The only way I wanted Gunther to drop the IC belt at Mania was if it were to Gable. That way, a great wrestler who truly deserves the push would win his first major singles title in a huge moment and would be “made” by pinning Gunther.
Sami’s been IC champion already, he doesn’t need to win it again and he got a great feel-good Mania moment last year. For those reasons, I don’t see him beating Gunther at Mania. Gunther will continue on for a while.
That said, the match is going to be awesome - so I can’t be upset in that regard. But yah, I would have preferred they cap off the Gable/Gunther story.
12-Mar-24 7:04pm
#93 Y2k
I think the question is typically 'Then what?' when it comes to the WWE belts.
Ya, I think the usual goal of any match is to get some sort of reaction out of the fans- especially title matches. Zayn/Guenther gives me the feeling that it's a good time to go out for a smoke and make snacks and take the dog for a walk. It's a bit tougher to get invested in anything involving Guenther with how small the world is today. Knowing they're heading to Germany soon for a big show and expecting he's going to be a main event there, it's difficult to see him dropping the title to any'one' at Mania. If Zayn beats him, then he looks weak going after Rollins or McIntyre in Berlin....especially since both of them have recently beaten Sami. If he beats Zayn....then, really, who cares? There's nobody on the Raw roster that 'should' beat him clean for it, except maybe Jey Uso.
It's kinda like the question of 'Who should beat Ripley?'. It won't be Becky. I really don't see anyone on the Raw roster that'll be doing that. Maybe Cargill if they ever put her on a show.
Who should beat Iyo? Honestly, who cares? Has she ever defended that thing? Does she do anything besides giggle and cringe by ringside? If they ever do a Forbidden Door with AEW, they could do Iyo VS Hart ..battle for 2 belts that everyone forgot exist.
I'd rather see Logan hold onto his title for awhile. Orton feels stale already....kinda like Edge did 20 minutes after he returned.
I struggle to care about the WWE tag titles. Seeing placeholders ala not actual tag team (Judgment Day) walking around with 4 belts is stupid. Granted, the tag team scene in WWE is weak on a good day.
Reigns title.....idk. I could see Cody winning it....but I love watching him lose so much so there's that.
I'm hoping for some sort of match for R-Truth that gets him fighting in a landfill and he finds the 24/7 championship.
#93 Y2k
I think the question is typically 'Then what?' when it comes to the WWE belts.
Ya, I think the usual goal of any match is to get some sort of reaction out of the fans- especially title matches. Zayn/Guenther gives me the feeling that it's a good time to go out for a smoke and make snacks and take the dog for a walk. It's a bit tougher to get invested in anything involving Guenther with how small the world is today. Knowing they're heading to Germany soon for a big show and expecting he's going to be a main event there, it's difficult to see him dropping the title to any'one' at Mania. If Zayn beats him, then he looks weak going after Rollins or McIntyre in Berlin....especially since both of them have recently beaten Sami. If he beats Zayn....then, really, who cares? There's nobody on the Raw roster that 'should' beat him clean for it, except maybe Jey Uso.
It's kinda like the question of 'Who should beat Ripley?'. It won't be Becky. I really don't see anyone on the Raw roster that'll be doing that. Maybe Cargill if they ever put her on a show.
Who should beat Iyo? Honestly, who cares? Has she ever defended that thing? Does she do anything besides giggle and cringe by ringside? If they ever do a Forbidden Door with AEW, they could do Iyo VS Hart ..battle for 2 belts that everyone forgot exist.
I'd rather see Logan hold onto his title for awhile. Orton feels stale already....kinda like Edge did 20 minutes after he returned.
I struggle to care about the WWE tag titles. Seeing placeholders ala not actual tag team (Judgment Day) walking around with 4 belts is stupid. Granted, the tag team scene in WWE is weak on a good day.
Reigns title.....idk. I could see Cody winning it....but I love watching him lose so much so there's that.
I'm hoping for some sort of match for R-Truth that gets him fighting in a landfill and he finds the 24/7 championship.
12-Mar-24 7:10pm
#94 PizzaTheHutt
I finally caught up on the John Tenta/Earthquake episode of Dark Side of the Ring. This felt way off from a typical episode. First, around the halfway point of the episode, it's like they shift focus to Typhoon/Shockmaster. And overall, John was a genuinely good, honest person, so there was no scandal to talk about. This just felt more like a documentary than what you'd expect from a typical DSotR episode, because there was nothing "dark" about it at all. Still, I don't regret watching it though. It's nice to know not everyone was a scumbag from that era when cameras weren't rolling.
Edit: Oh yeah, and the episode reminded me of his brief WCW run with the Avalanche gimmick. I had totally forgotten about that, and years ago in one of the TEW games I had signed two jabronis whose names I've forgotten now, but I repackaged them under the Natural Disasters tag team gimmick and renamed them as Avalanche and Tsunami.
#94 PizzaTheHutt
I finally caught up on the John Tenta/Earthquake episode of Dark Side of the Ring. This felt way off from a typical episode. First, around the halfway point of the episode, it's like they shift focus to Typhoon/Shockmaster. And overall, John was a genuinely good, honest person, so there was no scandal to talk about. This just felt more like a documentary than what you'd expect from a typical DSotR episode, because there was nothing "dark" about it at all. Still, I don't regret watching it though. It's nice to know not everyone was a scumbag from that era when cameras weren't rolling.
Edit: Oh yeah, and the episode reminded me of his brief WCW run with the Avalanche gimmick. I had totally forgotten about that, and years ago in one of the TEW games I had signed two jabronis whose names I've forgotten now, but I repackaged them under the Natural Disasters tag team gimmick and renamed them as Avalanche and Tsunami.
13-Mar-24 12:53pm
#95 theJaw
Thunderbolt Patterson getting inducted into WWE HOF this year. That’s pretty gosh darn cool.
#95 theJaw
Thunderbolt Patterson getting inducted into WWE HOF this year. That’s pretty gosh darn cool.
14-Mar-24 1:37pm
#96 BucketofJustice
Mercedes’ AEW debut last night was about as well done as it could’ve been, and hopefully is the beginning of a good run for her. I think that Gory-bomb-like move she likes to do is awkward and kind of dumb but otherwise solid thumbs up.
#96 BucketofJustice
Mercedes’ AEW debut last night was about as well done as it could’ve been, and hopefully is the beginning of a good run for her. I think that Gory-bomb-like move she likes to do is awkward and kind of dumb but otherwise solid thumbs up.
14-Mar-24 2:06pm
#97 PizzaTheHutt
I'm seeing a lot of people question why they chose to open the show with her debut instead of save it for the end. I personally didn't mind it though. I mean, we remember CM Punk's big return promo, and how it got cut short because it was saved to close the show and the match ahead of it went a little longer than it was supposed to. I'd rather take no chances of that happening again.
#97 PizzaTheHutt
I'm seeing a lot of people question why they chose to open the show with her debut instead of save it for the end. I personally didn't mind it though. I mean, we remember CM Punk's big return promo, and how it got cut short because it was saved to close the show and the match ahead of it went a little longer than it was supposed to. I'd rather take no chances of that happening again.
14-Mar-24 6:13pm
#98 PizzaTheHutt
PizzaTheHutt wrote:
I'm seeing a lot of people question why they chose to open the show with her debut instead of save it for the end. I personally didn't mind it though. I mean, we remember CM Punk's big return promo, and how it got cut short because it was saved to close the show and the match ahead of it went a little longer than it was supposed to. I'd rather take no chances of that happening again.
Maybe not the right call after all. People tuned in for her, but numbers steadily declined as viewers didn't stay for the entirety of the show (I admit I was guilty of that too). It did generate some buzz though. Tony Khan's Tweet that Adam Copeland was "All Elite" has 2.9 million views currently. The same Tweet for ol' Sasha has 2.5 million views in under 24 hours.
#98 PizzaTheHutt
PizzaTheHutt wrote:
I'm seeing a lot of people question why they chose to open the show with her debut instead of save it for the end. I personally didn't mind it though. I mean, we remember CM Punk's big return promo, and how it got cut short because it was saved to close the show and the match ahead of it went a little longer than it was supposed to. I'd rather take no chances of that happening again.
Maybe not the right call after all. People tuned in for her, but numbers steadily declined as viewers didn't stay for the entirety of the show (I admit I was guilty of that too). It did generate some buzz though. Tony Khan's Tweet that Adam Copeland was "All Elite" has 2.9 million views currently. The same Tweet for ol' Sasha has 2.5 million views in under 24 hours.
14-Mar-24 7:25pm
#99 theJaw
Bound to happen. Either pop that big illustrious 1mil at the top of the show to help the overall average for the following 2 hours or risk people getting tired/impatient and tuning out before she shows up. Still a positive for AEW either way.
#99 theJaw
Bound to happen. Either pop that big illustrious 1mil at the top of the show to help the overall average for the following 2 hours or risk people getting tired/impatient and tuning out before she shows up. Still a positive for AEW either way.
14-Mar-24 10:17pm
#100 BucketofJustice
Not sure how it’s an issue yet. Mercedes spiked a good starting number and then it dropped over 25% by the end of the hour when the Elite were on, and the picked up again for 9PM and then dropped to 627k. They lost 37% overall as the show happened, which isn’t good. The good is that they started higher. It’ll take some time to see whether these 3 big signings can help turn the ratings around. Tony should be concerned but he should also not hotshot stuff because history has shown it doesn’t work long term. I do wish he’d get his TV right secured though.
#100 BucketofJustice
Not sure how it’s an issue yet. Mercedes spiked a good starting number and then it dropped over 25% by the end of the hour when the Elite were on, and the picked up again for 9PM and then dropped to 627k. They lost 37% overall as the show happened, which isn’t good. The good is that they started higher. It’ll take some time to see whether these 3 big signings can help turn the ratings around. Tony should be concerned but he should also not hotshot stuff because history has shown it doesn’t work long term. I do wish he’d get his TV right secured though.
15-Mar-24 11:24am
#101 Y2k
Sometimes it seems they'd get more people tuning in if they had a little bar on the side of the screen showing how many people were watching at home.
That would get all the WWE guys watching and put them ahead in ratings without having to sign anyone.
#101 Y2k
Sometimes it seems they'd get more people tuning in if they had a little bar on the side of the screen showing how many people were watching at home.
That would get all the WWE guys watching and put them ahead in ratings without having to sign anyone.Wrestling Discussion