Wrestling Discussion
2-Oct-19 7:16pm
#1 Sun
Other thread was closed...so here we are.
Anyone else excited for AEW Dynamite tonight?
#1 Sun
| This topic had many older posts which were moved here: https://gametz.com/G... |
Other thread was closed...so here we are.
Anyone else excited for AEW Dynamite tonight?
29-Mar-24 9:38am
#161 Y2k
image
This is the seating plan for the upcoming Dynamite on May 1st in Winnipeg. They're not even attempting to sell the greyed out seats other than the east/west floor. Why? The blue areas have seats available. Some are sold, but most aren't. There has been absolutely ZERO promotion for this even happening up here yet. It's only a month away and should coincide with most people getting their tax returns. They have every opportunity to pack this up.
A good part of AEW's roster have strong connections to Winnipeg (Jericho, Omega (injured, but whatever), Callis, Copeland, and Christian). WWE seldom comes here and the top guys usually sit it out. It's basically an open market.
I've been to movies and concerts that are virtually empty. It's not the same experience when it's packed. I hate people, but it absolutely changes the experience.
I don't care about TV ratings. I know I sure don't contribute to those...but I watch their show anyway. Empty arenas are a bit depressing. Empty because they can't sell their product is one thing......but empty because they don't want to fill them is another question. Filling arenas would shut up guys like Bischoff et al. Everyday isn't going to be Wembley, but they can still feel like it.
#161 Y2k
image
This is the seating plan for the upcoming Dynamite on May 1st in Winnipeg. They're not even attempting to sell the greyed out seats other than the east/west floor. Why? The blue areas have seats available. Some are sold, but most aren't. There has been absolutely ZERO promotion for this even happening up here yet. It's only a month away and should coincide with most people getting their tax returns. They have every opportunity to pack this up.
A good part of AEW's roster have strong connections to Winnipeg (Jericho, Omega (injured, but whatever), Callis, Copeland, and Christian). WWE seldom comes here and the top guys usually sit it out. It's basically an open market.
I've been to movies and concerts that are virtually empty. It's not the same experience when it's packed. I hate people, but it absolutely changes the experience.
I don't care about TV ratings. I know I sure don't contribute to those...but I watch their show anyway. Empty arenas are a bit depressing. Empty because they can't sell their product is one thing......but empty because they don't want to fill them is another question. Filling arenas would shut up guys like Bischoff et al. Everyday isn't going to be Wembley, but they can still feel like it.
29-Mar-24 10:56am
#162 theJaw
Seats/sections open as events sell tickets. They’re not saying “we don’t want to sell these seats,” they’re just selling the seats that will be on camera first. Should those all sell out, more sections open.
I agree AEW has an issue with marketing/promoting live events and they raised their ticket prices to almost unreasonable levels after Punk showed up. They need to promote more (local interviews, etc) - which tbh, they have in recent months - and lower ticket prices. But the seats aren’t available because the sections they have open aren’t selling out.
At this point, they’re still raking in 3k-5k crowds weekly. They aren’t going to go to smaller, more intimate venues because most a tier below only seat 2k-3k. Even with only half arenas, they’re still making more money than if they were to downsize. If it looks good on TV for the network and sponsors (and it does), there’s no reason to switch up their touring schedule. But yah, they could certainly do more to sell more tickets - it just very obviously isn’t as big an issue as some folks tend to make it seem.
#162 theJaw
Seats/sections open as events sell tickets. They’re not saying “we don’t want to sell these seats,” they’re just selling the seats that will be on camera first. Should those all sell out, more sections open.
I agree AEW has an issue with marketing/promoting live events and they raised their ticket prices to almost unreasonable levels after Punk showed up. They need to promote more (local interviews, etc) - which tbh, they have in recent months - and lower ticket prices. But the seats aren’t available because the sections they have open aren’t selling out.
At this point, they’re still raking in 3k-5k crowds weekly. They aren’t going to go to smaller, more intimate venues because most a tier below only seat 2k-3k. Even with only half arenas, they’re still making more money than if they were to downsize. If it looks good on TV for the network and sponsors (and it does), there’s no reason to switch up their touring schedule. But yah, they could certainly do more to sell more tickets - it just very obviously isn’t as big an issue as some folks tend to make it seem.
29-Mar-24 4:03pm
#163 PizzaTheHutt
When I was at Collision I couldn't shake the feeling "why does this place look so small now?" because I was there 3 months prior for Raw. I didn't notice until a couple hours in that it just felt smaller because they had all the upper sections tarped off, so with the right lighting if you hadn't been there before you wouldn't have known there were seats up there.
#163 PizzaTheHutt
When I was at Collision I couldn't shake the feeling "why does this place look so small now?" because I was there 3 months prior for Raw. I didn't notice until a couple hours in that it just felt smaller because they had all the upper sections tarped off, so with the right lighting if you hadn't been there before you wouldn't have known there were seats up there.
29-Mar-24 6:29pm
#164 BucketofJustice
At some point unless Tony or Shad the Dad decides to pull the plug, losing money becomes unsustainable. Selling less tickets means less money. AEW isn’t pricing itself out of the market as much as they’re just not drawing like they used to. They’re not a hot property the way they used to be. That’s because AEW isn’t telling compelling stories. AEW might have some amazing characters and the matches are usually good to great, but they’re not taking advantage of the characters. Say what you want. Call me a grifter or whatever but I’m right. We saw it with WWE for over 20 years. We saw TNA circle the bowl because of bad creative. We saw WCW die because they lost so much money, again because of bad creative. ECW couldn’t keep up and that last year and a half was not great. ROH couldn’t clear the hurdle of creative working out, as much as I liked ROH especially early on.
#164 BucketofJustice
At some point unless Tony or Shad the Dad decides to pull the plug, losing money becomes unsustainable. Selling less tickets means less money. AEW isn’t pricing itself out of the market as much as they’re just not drawing like they used to. They’re not a hot property the way they used to be. That’s because AEW isn’t telling compelling stories. AEW might have some amazing characters and the matches are usually good to great, but they’re not taking advantage of the characters. Say what you want. Call me a grifter or whatever but I’m right. We saw it with WWE for over 20 years. We saw TNA circle the bowl because of bad creative. We saw WCW die because they lost so much money, again because of bad creative. ECW couldn’t keep up and that last year and a half was not great. ROH couldn’t clear the hurdle of creative working out, as much as I liked ROH especially early on.
29-Mar-24 6:44pm
#165 PizzaTheHutt
BucketofJustice wrote:
ROH couldn’t clear the hurdle of creative working out, as much as I liked ROH especially early on.
Yeah, if having the "best wrestling" was all that mattered, there would've been a good 5-6 years in the mid-2000s where ROH would've been the top promotion in the country.and it would've been WWE struggling to find a TV deal.
#165 PizzaTheHutt
BucketofJustice wrote:
ROH couldn’t clear the hurdle of creative working out, as much as I liked ROH especially early on.
Yeah, if having the "best wrestling" was all that mattered, there would've been a good 5-6 years in the mid-2000s where ROH would've been the top promotion in the country.and it would've been WWE struggling to find a TV deal.
29-Mar-24 7:45pm
#166 theJaw
Shahid Kahn only invested one single time when AEW first started -- none of his money is going into the company. Mike Ozanian, managing editor for Forbes, valued the company at $2 billion at minimum after a private valuation, with further research done by people with less access and theoretical information suggesting it could be floating around $1 billion. Both are fine numbers for a company 4 1/2 years old, but I'm more willing to believe the Forbes editor considering it's, well, Forbes. Ticket sales do need to be better -- but, yes, that is at least partially because of the prices and partially due to the markets they run their shows. Which is likely why Kosha Irby was brought in at the beginning of the year -- because she was WWE's Regional Director of Live Events and is said to be taking over a similar role for AEW after the poor turnouts.
Anyhow, I don't mean to ruffle any feathers obviously, but the "AEW has no compelling stories" shtick is for the birds. It's just a tired argument that holds no real water. There is no metric -- stories are 100% subjective. I, and many others, happen to really enjoy a lot of the stories AEW has told/is telling. Don’t get me wrong, there are plenty I didn’t, but I’m mostly fine with what they put out. So I just don’t understand how one can consider it objective fact that the stories are no good based solely on the fact that they personally feel that way. I mean, I personally find very few stories on WWE truly compelling -- even the majority of the Bloodline stuff when Roman/Rock aren't around -- but how I feel is irrelevant to their current success. On average, the same amount of people who tuned in when AEW started are still tuning in now, relatively speaking (see: that graph and info I posted recently). That simply wouldn't be the case if the stories were objectively uncompelling. You can dislike the stories and think those who enjoy them have bad taste, whatever floats your boat -- but, no, creative is very likely not the primary issue.
ECW went under because Heyman is an awful businessman who couldn't pay his talent, keep his shows on PPV or cable, made enemies of all his business partners and ultimately ghosted his crew. WCW sure had its fair share of bad creative, but WCW had far more issues than just that and those have been talked about ad nauseum. Sinclair stopped caring about ROH and mismanaged it brutally during its final days if we're to believe any of the people who worked there when they were closing. WWE were closest to failure in the mid-90s due to the steroid scandal and WCW's ascension pillaging the roster of recognizable names like Hogan, Hall and Nash, forcing them into a rebuilding period. While, sure, bad creative was present for all these companies, it for sure was never the core factor in their closures (or nagging issues, in WWE's case).
None of these situations are similar to AEW's current situation. None of those companies were valued near $2 billion when they went under with all signs pointing to a new lucrative TV deal coming at the end of the year when their current one is set to expire. None of them had the strong relationship with the network when they went under, none of them had the level of sponsorships when they went under, none of them were actively touted as key programming by their networks when they went under, none of them were listed in the Top 5 shows for their night consistently when they went under. AEW doesn't seem to be in any danger of closing due to financials and their recent hire would suggest that the attendance issue is likely because of scheduling/pricing as opposed to subjective storytelling (and hopefully that hire helps right the ship in that regard). Call me a fanboy or whatev -- again, I'm not trying to come off that way and am just approaching this topic with objectivity -- but these tangibles hold more weight than one's opinion on the stories.
Apologies for the essay.
#166 theJaw
Shahid Kahn only invested one single time when AEW first started -- none of his money is going into the company. Mike Ozanian, managing editor for Forbes, valued the company at $2 billion at minimum after a private valuation, with further research done by people with less access and theoretical information suggesting it could be floating around $1 billion. Both are fine numbers for a company 4 1/2 years old, but I'm more willing to believe the Forbes editor considering it's, well, Forbes. Ticket sales do need to be better -- but, yes, that is at least partially because of the prices and partially due to the markets they run their shows. Which is likely why Kosha Irby was brought in at the beginning of the year -- because she was WWE's Regional Director of Live Events and is said to be taking over a similar role for AEW after the poor turnouts.
Anyhow, I don't mean to ruffle any feathers obviously, but the "AEW has no compelling stories" shtick is for the birds. It's just a tired argument that holds no real water. There is no metric -- stories are 100% subjective. I, and many others, happen to really enjoy a lot of the stories AEW has told/is telling. Don’t get me wrong, there are plenty I didn’t, but I’m mostly fine with what they put out. So I just don’t understand how one can consider it objective fact that the stories are no good based solely on the fact that they personally feel that way. I mean, I personally find very few stories on WWE truly compelling -- even the majority of the Bloodline stuff when Roman/Rock aren't around -- but how I feel is irrelevant to their current success. On average, the same amount of people who tuned in when AEW started are still tuning in now, relatively speaking (see: that graph and info I posted recently). That simply wouldn't be the case if the stories were objectively uncompelling. You can dislike the stories and think those who enjoy them have bad taste, whatever floats your boat -- but, no, creative is very likely not the primary issue.
ECW went under because Heyman is an awful businessman who couldn't pay his talent, keep his shows on PPV or cable, made enemies of all his business partners and ultimately ghosted his crew. WCW sure had its fair share of bad creative, but WCW had far more issues than just that and those have been talked about ad nauseum. Sinclair stopped caring about ROH and mismanaged it brutally during its final days if we're to believe any of the people who worked there when they were closing. WWE were closest to failure in the mid-90s due to the steroid scandal and WCW's ascension pillaging the roster of recognizable names like Hogan, Hall and Nash, forcing them into a rebuilding period. While, sure, bad creative was present for all these companies, it for sure was never the core factor in their closures (or nagging issues, in WWE's case).
None of these situations are similar to AEW's current situation. None of those companies were valued near $2 billion when they went under with all signs pointing to a new lucrative TV deal coming at the end of the year when their current one is set to expire. None of them had the strong relationship with the network when they went under, none of them had the level of sponsorships when they went under, none of them were actively touted as key programming by their networks when they went under, none of them were listed in the Top 5 shows for their night consistently when they went under. AEW doesn't seem to be in any danger of closing due to financials and their recent hire would suggest that the attendance issue is likely because of scheduling/pricing as opposed to subjective storytelling (and hopefully that hire helps right the ship in that regard). Call me a fanboy or whatev -- again, I'm not trying to come off that way and am just approaching this topic with objectivity -- but these tangibles hold more weight than one's opinion on the stories.
Apologies for the essay.
29-Mar-24 11:14pm
#167 theJaw
Just saw that Bianca Belair, Jade Cargill & Naomi vs. Damage CTRL (Asuka, Dakota Kai & Kairi Sane) was added to Mania. Glad to see they're finally using Jade, even if this particular match doesn't really scratch the itch for me. Still oughtta be good stuff though.
Also, to help with the Mania hype:
https://www.youtube....
#167 theJaw
Just saw that Bianca Belair, Jade Cargill & Naomi vs. Damage CTRL (Asuka, Dakota Kai & Kairi Sane) was added to Mania. Glad to see they're finally using Jade, even if this particular match doesn't really scratch the itch for me. Still oughtta be good stuff though.
Also, to help with the Mania hype:
https://www.youtube....
30-Mar-24 12:36am
#168 PizzaTheHutt
I only watched the first 90 minutes of SmackDown tonight. With Jade's little promo, I felt like that was kind of a waste of time to just come out and say a few sentences and then flex. Is it just me or did it look like she had more to say at the end but they had already started playing her theme music to wrap it up?
#168 PizzaTheHutt
I only watched the first 90 minutes of SmackDown tonight. With Jade's little promo, I felt like that was kind of a waste of time to just come out and say a few sentences and then flex. Is it just me or did it look like she had more to say at the end but they had already started playing her theme music to wrap it up?
30-Mar-24 2:02am
#169 Y2k
I was a Jade fan when she was in AEW. I always got a kick out of the 'cut the crap, Tony' line. WWE needs a Tony to make this happen. I felt her promos in AEW were stronger than this one was tonight. The in-ring stuff there was a bit green...but when you're dealing with other green wrestlers every week, it seems doubtful that would improve much. Hopefully working with Bianca and Trinity helps that more.
I missed a bunch of Smackdown in between making supper so I'll rewatch it shortly.
Is it just me...or was Kairi a much more solid in-ring performer a few years ago during her first run in WWE?
#169 Y2k
I was a Jade fan when she was in AEW. I always got a kick out of the 'cut the crap, Tony' line. WWE needs a Tony to make this happen. I felt her promos in AEW were stronger than this one was tonight. The in-ring stuff there was a bit green...but when you're dealing with other green wrestlers every week, it seems doubtful that would improve much. Hopefully working with Bianca and Trinity helps that more.
I missed a bunch of Smackdown in between making supper so I'll rewatch it shortly.
Is it just me...or was Kairi a much more solid in-ring performer a few years ago during her first run in WWE?
30-Mar-24 2:52am
#170 PizzaTheHutt
Yeah, Kairi is not on top of her game these days. I'd like to see her put in serious effort in a match with Asuka or Iyo Sky, but we won't see that as long as she's in a stable with them. But then again for as long as they keep sticking her in tag teams (she's never had a chance to do her thing solo on the main roster), maybe she feels like she'll forever be lost in the shuffle.
#170 PizzaTheHutt
Yeah, Kairi is not on top of her game these days. I'd like to see her put in serious effort in a match with Asuka or Iyo Sky, but we won't see that as long as she's in a stable with them. But then again for as long as they keep sticking her in tag teams (she's never had a chance to do her thing solo on the main roster), maybe she feels like she'll forever be lost in the shuffle.
30-Mar-24 12:57pm
#171 theJaw
Yah I watched Jade’s run in segment back earlier and it was just okay. Makes one wonder why they kept her off TV for 7 months to “get better” when she just does all the same crap she did before, but I suppose we’ll have to wait for a proper singles match to see if she really improved or what. She was pretty damn good by the end of her AEW run, her matches with Statlander were awesome. Who knows the thought process in WWE sometimes though.
I still like Kairi but she isn’t doing her best work right now for sure. But I also feel like she hasn’t been given a TON of opportunities to really open up since her return.
Anyhow, here’s part 2 of that 24/7 Mania match marathon since the first video is private now. Tuned in just in time to miss the Wrestlemania VII match with Warrior kicking out of multiple Macho Man elbows in a row and instead get to see the great Savage/Liz reunion.
https://www.youtube....
#171 theJaw
Yah I watched Jade’s run in segment back earlier and it was just okay. Makes one wonder why they kept her off TV for 7 months to “get better” when she just does all the same crap she did before, but I suppose we’ll have to wait for a proper singles match to see if she really improved or what. She was pretty damn good by the end of her AEW run, her matches with Statlander were awesome. Who knows the thought process in WWE sometimes though.
I still like Kairi but she isn’t doing her best work right now for sure. But I also feel like she hasn’t been given a TON of opportunities to really open up since her return.
Anyhow, here’s part 2 of that 24/7 Mania match marathon since the first video is private now. Tuned in just in time to miss the Wrestlemania VII match with Warrior kicking out of multiple Macho Man elbows in a row and instead get to see the great Savage/Liz reunion.
https://www.youtube....
30-Mar-24 1:09pm
#172 theJaw
The Bayley/Sasha/Charlotte/Jax match from WM33 is on right now and I can’t stress enough how much I miss hugger Bayley. Her heel work was fun for sure but she had a legitimately super fun aura about her back in those hugger days. Would be neat to see them bring that back to some extent at Mania this year… I feel like her current face persona is missing something.
#172 theJaw
The Bayley/Sasha/Charlotte/Jax match from WM33 is on right now and I can’t stress enough how much I miss hugger Bayley. Her heel work was fun for sure but she had a legitimately super fun aura about her back in those hugger days. Would be neat to see them bring that back to some extent at Mania this year… I feel like her current face persona is missing something.
30-Mar-24 9:26pm
#173 theJaw
Matt Cardona answered Adam Copeland’s open challenge on Collision tonight, giving us Edge vs 1/2 of the Edgeheads. Pop was wild and the match was pretty awesome.
Gonna be a fun episode of the Major Wrestling Figure Podcast next week haha
https://m.youtube.co...
#173 theJaw
Matt Cardona answered Adam Copeland’s open challenge on Collision tonight, giving us Edge vs 1/2 of the Edgeheads. Pop was wild and the match was pretty awesome.
Gonna be a fun episode of the Major Wrestling Figure Podcast next week haha
https://m.youtube.co...
31-Mar-24 4:19pm
#174 theJaw
Was chatting with folks on Discord and the concept of Top 10 favorite tag teams came up. Who would you guys have on your list?
For me, I went with:
1. Kings of Wrestling (Chris Hero & Claudio Castagnoli)
2. The Briscoes (Jay & Mark Briscoe)
3. Hart Foundation (Bret Hart & Jim "The Anvil" Neidhart)
4. Von Erichs (specifically David, Kevin and Kerry)
5. Kenta Kobashi & Mitsuharu Misawa
6. Steenerico (Kevin Steen & El Generico)
7. The American Wolves (Davey Richards & Eddie Edwards)
8. The Young Bucks (Nick & Matt Jackson)
9. Wrestling's Greatest Tag Team (Shelton Bejamin & Charlie Haas)
10. Ricky Steamboat & Jay Youngblood
100% just my personal list -- not an objective thing at all. 9 & 10 may be bopped off from some teams I'm just not thinking of. I appreciate Dudleys, Hardy Boys and E&C but they don't top those 10 based on my personal preference. Interested to see if others share theirs, tag team wrestling doesn't get the love it deserves.
#174 theJaw
Was chatting with folks on Discord and the concept of Top 10 favorite tag teams came up. Who would you guys have on your list?
For me, I went with:
1. Kings of Wrestling (Chris Hero & Claudio Castagnoli)
2. The Briscoes (Jay & Mark Briscoe)
3. Hart Foundation (Bret Hart & Jim "The Anvil" Neidhart)
4. Von Erichs (specifically David, Kevin and Kerry)
5. Kenta Kobashi & Mitsuharu Misawa
6. Steenerico (Kevin Steen & El Generico)
7. The American Wolves (Davey Richards & Eddie Edwards)
8. The Young Bucks (Nick & Matt Jackson)
9. Wrestling's Greatest Tag Team (Shelton Bejamin & Charlie Haas)
10. Ricky Steamboat & Jay Youngblood
100% just my personal list -- not an objective thing at all. 9 & 10 may be bopped off from some teams I'm just not thinking of. I appreciate Dudleys, Hardy Boys and E&C but they don't top those 10 based on my personal preference. Interested to see if others share theirs, tag team wrestling doesn't get the love it deserves.
31-Mar-24 4:31pm
#175 BucketofJustice
No order except number 1. Subjective to the minute as I might have forgotten someone haha.
Midnight Express (Eaton and Lane)
Freebirds (Hayes and Gordy)
Road Warriors
Steiners
Uso’s
Haas and Benjamin
Hart Foundation (Bret and Anvil)
Hollywood Blondes (Austin and Pillman)
Arn and Tully
Briscoes (Jay and Mark)
Edit: honorable mentions to the Varsity Club and Power & Glory.
Edit: maybe also an honorable mention for Ricky Steamboat and stupid ass Shane Douglas. That’s the best work Shane Douglas ever did and it’s not even close. His ECW promo work was great until he just said fudge a thousand times and his matches were almost always disappointing.
#175 BucketofJustice
No order except number 1. Subjective to the minute as I might have forgotten someone haha.
Midnight Express (Eaton and Lane)
Freebirds (Hayes and Gordy)
Road Warriors
Steiners
Uso’s
Haas and Benjamin
Hart Foundation (Bret and Anvil)
Hollywood Blondes (Austin and Pillman)
Arn and Tully
Briscoes (Jay and Mark)
Edit: honorable mentions to the Varsity Club and Power & Glory.
Edit: maybe also an honorable mention for Ricky Steamboat and stupid ass Shane Douglas. That’s the best work Shane Douglas ever did and it’s not even close. His ECW promo work was great until he just said fudge a thousand times and his matches were almost always disappointing.
31-Mar-24 8:55pm
#177 theJaw
Going to bet whoever negged that post has never even seen a Steamboat/Youngblood match and/or that their preference in wrestling is awful 😉
#177 theJaw
Going to bet whoever negged that post has never even seen a Steamboat/Youngblood match and/or that their preference in wrestling is awful 😉
31-Mar-24 11:48pm
#180 BucketofJustice
For real. I knew I was going to forget a ton of people too haha
#180 BucketofJustice
For real. I knew I was going to forget a ton of people too haha
1-Apr-24 1:23pm
#181 BucketofJustice
Fudging hell THERE’S MORE!?!?!?? Of course there is. Vince is a sick fudge.
https://nypost.com/2...
#181 BucketofJustice
Fudging hell THERE’S MORE!?!?!?? Of course there is. Vince is a sick fudge.
https://nypost.com/2...
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