The Great Star War (Star Wars Discussion)
22-Jun-18 9:29pm
#1 theJaw
The great debate... Star Wars. I can feel @Jeffro and plenty of others punching holes through their computers whenever a large Star Wars discussion breaks out... so in response to a few posts that were left in the movie discussion thread, I figured it'd make sense to just move it here and carry on any Star Wars analyzing/debating to this thread.
image
I urge folks that if they want to talk anything Star Wars to do it here - of course unless it's solely to share your opinion/review on a movie, then the Movie thread works. I'd obviously rather this not be the case but I don't want to clog up the other thread. Let's try to keep this discussion story-driven and not politics-driven but heck, I can't control you animals.
May the Force be with us. inb4 move to politics.
#1 theJaw
| This topic had many older posts which were moved here: http://gametz.com/Ge... |
The great debate... Star Wars. I can feel @Jeffro and plenty of others punching holes through their computers whenever a large Star Wars discussion breaks out... so in response to a few posts that were left in the movie discussion thread, I figured it'd make sense to just move it here and carry on any Star Wars analyzing/debating to this thread.
image
I urge folks that if they want to talk anything Star Wars to do it here - of course unless it's solely to share your opinion/review on a movie, then the Movie thread works. I'd obviously rather this not be the case but I don't want to clog up the other thread. Let's try to keep this discussion story-driven and not politics-driven but heck, I can't control you animals.
May the Force be with us. inb4 move to politics.
24-Nov-20 7:43pm
#162 Grenadier
Much as I will defend the sequel trilogy for the most part, the word "perfect" does not describe any of them, especially Episode IX. They needed to smooth out almost everything related to
Palpatine, including his return, his ridiculously convoluted plan through the Sequel Trilogy, and why his defeat was even possible. Other parts of Ep 9 worked better, but the shoe-horning in of that villain, and almost everything related to him was a mess.
#162 Grenadier
Much as I will defend the sequel trilogy for the most part, the word "perfect" does not describe any of them, especially Episode IX. They needed to smooth out almost everything related to
Palpatine
24-Nov-20 7:53pm
#163 Scott
@Grenadier I was just messing with Jaw, me and him go back and forth about VIII vs IX. IX is my favorite, but it's definitely not perfect, nor are the revered OT films.
#163 Scott
@Grenadier I was just messing with Jaw, me and him go back and forth about VIII vs IX. IX is my favorite, but it's definitely not perfect, nor are the revered OT films.
24-Nov-20 8:44pm
#164 theJaw
Scott wrote:
Episode IX is perfect as is, just accept it.
Eff I was gonna make the joke that you spelled “VIII” wrong here but forgot to. Damn me.
#164 theJaw
Scott wrote:
Episode IX is perfect as is, just accept it.
Eff I was gonna make the joke that you spelled “VIII” wrong here but forgot to. Damn me.
24-Nov-20 8:57pm
#165 KCPenguins
Scott wrote:
...XIII vs IX....
XIII??? Maybe I'm brain farting.
Edit: Missed the boat.
theJaw wrote:
Scott wrote:> Episode IX is perfect as is, just accept it. Eff I was gonna make the joke that you spelled “VIII” wrong here but forgot to. Damn me.
#165 KCPenguins
Scott wrote:
...XIII vs IX....
XIII??? Maybe I'm brain farting.
Edit: Missed the boat.
theJaw wrote:
Scott wrote:> Episode IX is perfect as is, just accept it. Eff I was gonna make the joke that you spelled “VIII” wrong here but forgot to. Damn me.
24-Nov-20 9:52pm
#168 theJaw
SW movies all have flaws in them, none of them are ACTUALLY perfect, but to be fair, the original trilogy (at least IV and V) were as close to "perfect" sci-fi/fantasy movies at the time of their release for lots of folks. Sure we can use hindsight and acknowledge the blunders and shoddy writing from those movies (lookin' at you, brother/sister twist) but at that moment in film history, it was something completely fresh and new and interesting. I'm really jealous of my dad, who never passes up the opportunity to tell me that he was in the theater seeing the Tantive IV being chased by the much larger star destroyer at the beginning of ANH during its initial run - when nothing like it had ever been seen.
So to an extent I get why folks have been almost predisposed to be disappointed by any SW movies that followed, both PT and ST. Obviously as someone who grew up in the 90s, I don't share that exact sentiment and tend to be more disappointed by story-related issues within the movies, but I totally understand why some folks would consider the OT to be "perfect" in their eyes compared to later installments - later installments just weren't groundbreaking or revolutionary the way the first wave of SW movies had been. But that would have been near impossible at this point, people are so use to overblown spectacle by now. This, I feel, is the detail missed by those fans who tend to get toxic. Either they grew up with the OT as they were introduced, or they were brought up to revere those films over others BY the folks who grew up with the OT as they were introduced, so they become defensive and create this unearned sense of ownership to the movies solely because they devoted so much head space to them. But perspective changes as time passes and I really wish those folks who feel so anti-SW these days would just loosen up and go along for the ride...
...until Episode IX. You can skip that one.
#168 theJaw
SW movies all have flaws in them, none of them are ACTUALLY perfect, but to be fair, the original trilogy (at least IV and V) were as close to "perfect" sci-fi/fantasy movies at the time of their release for lots of folks. Sure we can use hindsight and acknowledge the blunders and shoddy writing from those movies (lookin' at you, brother/sister twist) but at that moment in film history, it was something completely fresh and new and interesting. I'm really jealous of my dad, who never passes up the opportunity to tell me that he was in the theater seeing the Tantive IV being chased by the much larger star destroyer at the beginning of ANH during its initial run - when nothing like it had ever been seen.
So to an extent I get why folks have been almost predisposed to be disappointed by any SW movies that followed, both PT and ST. Obviously as someone who grew up in the 90s, I don't share that exact sentiment and tend to be more disappointed by story-related issues within the movies, but I totally understand why some folks would consider the OT to be "perfect" in their eyes compared to later installments - later installments just weren't groundbreaking or revolutionary the way the first wave of SW movies had been. But that would have been near impossible at this point, people are so use to overblown spectacle by now. This, I feel, is the detail missed by those fans who tend to get toxic. Either they grew up with the OT as they were introduced, or they were brought up to revere those films over others BY the folks who grew up with the OT as they were introduced, so they become defensive and create this unearned sense of ownership to the movies solely because they devoted so much head space to them. But perspective changes as time passes and I really wish those folks who feel so anti-SW these days would just loosen up and go along for the ride...
...until Episode IX. You can skip that one.
24-Nov-20 10:03pm
#169 Scott
KCPenguins wrote:
Scott wrote:> ...XIII vs> IX....> XIII??? Maybe I'm brain farting.
You haven't seen Episode XIII yet???
#169 Scott
KCPenguins wrote:
Scott wrote:> ...XIII vs> IX....> XIII??? Maybe I'm brain farting.
You haven't seen Episode XIII yet???
24-Nov-20 10:14pm
#170 theJaw
Scott wrote:
You haven't seen Episode XIII yet???
Honestly, they already released the opening crawl and everything...
https://starwarsintr...
#170 theJaw
Scott wrote:
You haven't seen Episode XIII yet???
Honestly, they already released the opening crawl and everything...
https://starwarsintr...
24-Nov-20 11:29pm
#171 Kommie
Why did they have to make that stupid plot twist with Rey in RoS? It's just so bad and so tropey Star Wars bullcrap.
#171 Kommie
Why did they have to make that stupid plot twist with Rey in RoS? It's just so bad and so tropey Star Wars bullcrap.
24-Nov-20 11:38pm
#173 theJaw
@Kommie Think you answered your own question there. A familial connection is classic SW tropey bs. That one definitely was my least favorite though. For as little as Luke/Leia being siblings was planned, Rey/Palpatine was just a hail mary hope of appeasing the most vocal detractors of Rey being “no one.” All of them are attempts at rehashing the Luke/Vader reveal in Empire, which just can’t be replicated.
I think Trevorrow’s script handled Rey’s revelation gorgeously. In that version, Rey rises to the occasion against Kylo Ren and when he repeats that she is “no one”, she responds to him by saying “no one is no one.” After Rey defeats Kylo, he has one tiny window of civility and tells Rey her last name: Solana. No pre-established importance, the moment suggests that she made her name important herself by being a hero. Maybe a slightly cheesy line with the “no one” bit but it at least makes SW and the characters who populate that universe seem way more important and meaningful instead of insisting that everyone of true importance is required to be related to someone else of true importance in order to matter.
Despite establishing that the Force flows through the entire universe: Luke was only important because he was related to the OTs villain. Anakin was only important because he became Darth Vader/was Luke’s father. Rey was only important because she was related to the OTs primary villain.
I really hope the next sequel, if it happens, throws Rey into the Obi Wan role and allows the main protagonists of that story be fresh, new characters with no baggage left behind by legacy characters (the way Rey was until Episode IX).
#173 theJaw
@Kommie Think you answered your own question there. A familial connection is classic SW tropey bs. That one definitely was my least favorite though. For as little as Luke/Leia being siblings was planned, Rey/Palpatine was just a hail mary hope of appeasing the most vocal detractors of Rey being “no one.” All of them are attempts at rehashing the Luke/Vader reveal in Empire, which just can’t be replicated.
I think Trevorrow’s script handled Rey’s revelation gorgeously. In that version, Rey rises to the occasion against Kylo Ren and when he repeats that she is “no one”, she responds to him by saying “no one is no one.” After Rey defeats Kylo, he has one tiny window of civility and tells Rey her last name: Solana. No pre-established importance, the moment suggests that she made her name important herself by being a hero. Maybe a slightly cheesy line with the “no one” bit but it at least makes SW and the characters who populate that universe seem way more important and meaningful instead of insisting that everyone of true importance is required to be related to someone else of true importance in order to matter.
Despite establishing that the Force flows through the entire universe: Luke was only important because he was related to the OTs villain. Anakin was only important because he became Darth Vader/was Luke’s father. Rey was only important because she was related to the OTs primary villain.
I really hope the next sequel, if it happens, throws Rey into the Obi Wan role and allows the main protagonists of that story be fresh, new characters with no baggage left behind by legacy characters (the way Rey was until Episode IX).
24-Nov-20 11:41pm
#174 theJaw
JD wrote:
I agree and that unnecessary kiss as well
One of the most forced kisses in cinema history imo. That moment, to me, is the dead giveaway that Ep IX was just to spoon feed the out spoken fandom their own head canon because for some reason people constantly shipped Rey and Kylo despite him being a murderous neo-nazi sociopath until the last 45 minutes of the trilogy.
#174 theJaw
JD wrote:
I agree and that unnecessary kiss as well
One of the most forced kisses in cinema history imo. That moment, to me, is the dead giveaway that Ep IX was just to spoon feed the out spoken fandom their own head canon because for some reason people constantly shipped Rey and Kylo despite him being a murderous neo-nazi sociopath until the last 45 minutes of the trilogy.
24-Nov-20 11:44pm
#175 Kommie
Yeah it's a rhetorical question. Anakin was No One. Why can't Rey be No One? Oh, right in a giant universe with billions of Planets all the main characters have to be related.
Also, the Red Room fight in TLJ.... Rey drops the lightsaber and kills the guy with her other hand. Game of Thrones/Night King (implying D and D probably ripped it off from TLJ).
#175 Kommie
Yeah it's a rhetorical question. Anakin was No One. Why can't Rey be No One? Oh, right in a giant universe with billions of Planets all the main characters have to be related.
Also, the Red Room fight in TLJ.... Rey drops the lightsaber and kills the guy with her other hand. Game of Thrones/Night King (implying D and D probably ripped it off from TLJ).
24-Nov-20 11:51pm
#176 theJaw
Kommie wrote:
Yeah it's a rhetorical question. Anakin was No One. Why can't Rey be No One? Oh, right in a giant universe with billions of Planets all the main characters have to be related.
Yah it’s a bit silly. I mean I get wanting SW to feel “like SW”, so they paint the movie by numbers with all the pre-established SW cliches, but imo SW was always about the themes, not the moment-to-moment plot beats. Give me a thematically strong story that progresses the narrative instead of a tropey story that keeps the narrative in the status quo any day of the week.
Also, the Red Room fight in TLJ.... Rey drops the lightsaber and kills the guy with her other hand. Game of Thrones/Night King.
Lol yah when that Arya/Night King scene aired, Rian Johnson sent out this MVP of a tweet:
image
#176 theJaw
Kommie wrote:
Yeah it's a rhetorical question. Anakin was No One. Why can't Rey be No One? Oh, right in a giant universe with billions of Planets all the main characters have to be related.
Yah it’s a bit silly. I mean I get wanting SW to feel “like SW”, so they paint the movie by numbers with all the pre-established SW cliches, but imo SW was always about the themes, not the moment-to-moment plot beats. Give me a thematically strong story that progresses the narrative instead of a tropey story that keeps the narrative in the status quo any day of the week.
Also, the Red Room fight in TLJ.... Rey drops the lightsaber and kills the guy with her other hand. Game of Thrones/Night King.
Lol yah when that Arya/Night King scene aired, Rian Johnson sent out this MVP of a tweet:
image
25-Nov-20 12:00am
#177 Grenadier
Kommie wrote:
Also, the Red Room fight in TLJ.... Rey drops the lightsaber and kills the guy with her other hand. Game of Thrones/Night King.
You do know which of those scenes was shot first, right?
#177 Grenadier
Kommie wrote:
Also, the Red Room fight in TLJ.... Rey drops the lightsaber and kills the guy with her other hand. Game of Thrones/Night King.
You do know which of those scenes was shot first, right?
25-Nov-20 8:43am
#178 Kommie
Grenadier wrote:
Kommie wrote:> Also, the Red Room fight in TLJ.... Rey drops the lightsaber and kills the guy with> her other hand. Game of Thrones/Night King. You do which of those scenes was shot first, right?
TLJ is what I was implying.. It came out in 2017. I didn't do a great job of implying if though. D and D really didn't care at the end
#178 Kommie
Grenadier wrote:
Kommie wrote:> Also, the Red Room fight in TLJ.... Rey drops the lightsaber and kills the guy with> her other hand. Game of Thrones/Night King. You do which of those scenes was shot first, right?
TLJ is what I was implying.. It came out in 2017. I didn't do a great job of implying if though. D and D really didn't care at the end
10-Dec-20 10:21pm
#179 theJaw
Welp a buttload of news in the Star Wars universe after tonight...
If I missed any news, post about it here.
#179 theJaw
Welp a buttload of news in the Star Wars universe after tonight...
Taika Waititi confirmed to be helming an untitled Star Wars movie - Pumped for this. Unlikely there is any other creator in Hollywood I have more faith in than Waititi. Everything he's done has been great, and after seeing his treatment of Thor I can only imagine what his SW movie will be like. Wonder Woman director Patty Jenkins directing next Star Wars movie, titled "Rogue Squadron" and releasing in 2023 - Pumped for a Rogue Squadron movie and the teaser they released with Jenkins talking about her father and the movie she "always wanted to make" gives me faith that we'll get something worthwhile here. Hayden Christensen confirmed to be returning as Darth Vader in the Obi Wan Kenobi Disney+ show - I've always subscribed to the idea that Christensen only came off so rough in the prequels because it was George Lucas directing him. This dude has been real good in other projects. That said, he'll be playing Darth Vader this time... so who knows how much his performance will really matter. I assume James Earl Jones will still be voicing him if he's able. Either way, it oughtta be interesting to see how Vader plays into this story 10 years after Revenge of the Sith, or if it'll end up making his meeting with Kenobi in A New Hope a bit less special. Ahsoka Disney+ show confirmed - Wonderful. She ruled in Mandalorian and while I sorta hate that her sole purpose in that show as to set up this show, I'm still very much looking forward to this. The Ahsoka/Thrawn/Ezra/Sabine stuff may be my favorite aspect of Star Wars in this modern era, so I cannot wait for a show to delve deeper into all that. Mandalorian spin-off "Rangers of the New Republic" Disney+ show confirmed - I imagine this will tie into the X-Wing pilots who showed up during the 3rd and 4th episodes of Mandalorian Season 2. This could be cool but I'm wondering how it'll compare to/contrast against the Rogue Squadron movie. I feel like there's a real easy chance both projects overlap with themes and storytelling, but maybe that'll be on purpose and turn out well. I'm not super hyped for this but it will still be really cool to see the inner-workings of the New Rebellion for the first real time in live action canon. Lando Calrissian Disney+ show confirmed - Hopefully they're able to get Donald Glover, I don't know why you'd bother without him. Still, I'm not too too hyped about this. I'm sure it'll be fun enough but I feel like the Lando character has more-or-less been explored as much as they can. We'll see though. Andor Disney+ show confirmed, BTS teaser released - See: my Lando thoughts above. Just about the exact same feeling. "Mystery-thriller" Disney+ show titled "The Acolyte" confirmed - Intrigued to see what they do here, and if they actually commit to a "mystery-thriller" vibe for it. No story details are out as far as I know, but the genre could be neat for a Sith apprentice or something like that. Maybe some Palpatine/Plaguies stuff? UPDATE: This is apparently set during the new High Republic era that was announced and will be rolled out in 2021. I was skeptical at first but I'm looking forward to exploring that era in the comics so it'll be neat to see how the show ties in. The Bad Batch animated Disney+ show re-confirmed with a trailer - Probably what I'm least excited about. I'm over the clones in just about every way. I dig Rex because he's an actual character, but I don't need anymore prequel-era clone stories. It seems they're destined to keep doling them out though. Star Wars: Visions short animated film series confirmed - If this is anything like the old "Star Wars Tales" comics or the newer "Star Wars Adventures" comics, it could be great. Quick standalone stories that satisfy. Looking forward to seeing what they end up doing. "A Droid Story" starring C-3PO and R2-D2 short film confirmed - I have a soft, nostalgic spot in my heart for the real crappy Droids cartoon from the 80s, especially the movie they edited a few of the episodes into, so I'll watch this and probably love it. Apparently it's about them leading a new character through a story, which is similar to the cartoon premise. Looking forward to it even if I don't expect that much out of it. |
If I missed any news, post about it here.
10-Dec-20 10:26pm
#181 theJaw
Kommie wrote:
Too much to get me to watch all of it. Maybe some.
As a fan of Star Wars in this modern streaming era, there's no such thing as "too much" - just "what I'll feel like watching". I say keep pumping out the content for those who will be into it, and it at least offers some stuff I can visit down the road when I'm bored if I pass on it initially.
#181 theJaw
Kommie wrote:
Too much to get me to watch all of it. Maybe some.
As a fan of Star Wars in this modern streaming era, there's no such thing as "too much" - just "what I'll feel like watching". I say keep pumping out the content for those who will be into it, and it at least offers some stuff I can visit down the road when I'm bored if I pass on it initially.
The Great Star War (Star Wars Discussion)